Could Western Jews (Ash. and Seph.) descend from Aegeans and Levantine admixture?

[Abceff]

can you show us academic papers backing up your claims that Palestinian Muslims are 45 percent Levantine

Also show a model showing how much ppnb/c admixture Palestinian Muslims have

neolithic model in this discussion means nothing. you can't differentiate from which population the elevated natufian ancestry in Palestinian muslims is from (egyptians or arabs), same with ashkenazim.

Target: Rome_Imperial_EastMed
Distance: 0.8549% / 0.00854873
55.0	EEF
19.2	Steppe_Pastoralist
14.0	Iran_Neolithic
8.0	Levant_Natufian_contam
3.8	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer

Target: ITA_Sicily_480BCE_AegeanProfile
Distance: 0.9481% / 0.00948097
75.0	EEF
15.0	Steppe_Pastoralist
7.4	Iran_Neolithic
2.6	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer

Target: Lebanon_IAII_Beirut
Distance: 3.9202% / 0.03920213
43.4	EEF
29.6	Levant_Natufian_contam
25.0	Iran_Neolithic
2.0	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer

Target: Ashkenazi_Jew
Distance: 1.0706% / 0.01070558
47.2	EEF
26.4	Steppe_Pastoralist
12.8	Levant_Natufian_contam
10.2	Iran_Neolithic
2.4	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer
1.0	Iberomaurusian

Target: Palestinian
Distance: 1.8306% / 0.01830569
32.0	Levant_Natufian_contam
30.0	EEF
24.2	Iran_Neolithic
5.4	Steppe_Pastoralist
5.2	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer
3.2	SSA

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 1.4779% / 0.01477864
38.2	Levant_Natufian_contam
25.6	EEF
19.6	Iran_Neolithic
11.6	SSA
4.6	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer
0.2	Iberomaurusian
0.2	Steppe_Pastoralist

Target: Saudi
Distance: 5.5222% / 0.05522179
63.2	Levant_Natufian_contam
26.4	Iran_Neolithic
10.4	EEF

also can we stop with the useless comparisons between jews and Palestinians? it's not what the thread is about

[Gentica277282]

neolithic model in this discussion means nothing. you can't differentiate from which population the elevated natufian ancestry in Palestinian muslims is from (egyptians or arabs), same with ashkenazim.

Target: Rome_Imperial_EastMed
Distance: 0.8549% / 0.00854873
55.0	EEF
19.2	Steppe_Pastoralist
14.0	Iran_Neolithic
8.0	Levant_Natufian_contam
3.8	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer

Target: ITA_Sicily_480BCE_AegeanProfile
Distance: 0.9481% / 0.00948097
75.0	EEF
15.0	Steppe_Pastoralist
7.4	Iran_Neolithic
2.6	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer

Target: Lebanon_IAII_Beirut
Distance: 3.9202% / 0.03920213
43.4	EEF
29.6	Levant_Natufian_contam
25.0	Iran_Neolithic
2.0	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer

Target: Ashkenazi_Jew
Distance: 1.0706% / 0.01070558
47.2	EEF
26.4	Steppe_Pastoralist
12.8	Levant_Natufian_contam
10.2	Iran_Neolithic
2.4	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer
1.0	Iberomaurusian

Target: Palestinian
Distance: 1.8306% / 0.01830569
32.0	Levant_Natufian_contam
30.0	EEF
24.2	Iran_Neolithic
5.4	Steppe_Pastoralist
5.2	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer
3.2	SSA

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 1.4779% / 0.01477864
38.2	Levant_Natufian_contam
25.6	EEF
19.6	Iran_Neolithic
11.6	SSA
4.6	Caucasus_Hunter-gatherer
0.2	Iberomaurusian
0.2	Steppe_Pastoralist

Target: Saudi
Distance: 5.5222% / 0.05522179
63.2	Levant_Natufian_contam
26.4	Iran_Neolithic
10.4	EEF

also can we stop with the useless comparisons between jews and Palestinians? it's not what the thread is about

It's natufian like ancestry khoya I was discussing ppnb admixture anyway. The only reason I made these comments is because they mentioned Palestinian Muslims and Arabs first


Arabs don't have direct natufian ancestry to begin with
"Since Arabians have an excess of Natufian-like ancestry compared to elsewhere in the Middle East, we found they also carry an excess of basal Eurasian ancestry that will reduce their Neanderthal ancestry"

[Vinshlusen]

There is this joke that the one thing all Israelis have in common is that one uncle who lives in Beersheba. I do fall into that sterotype as well. Issac is everyone's uncle I guess

Well we all have an "uncle Issac" to some degree of removal

[Gentica277282]

All peer reviewed studies have limitations, as we've shown you 2 already that have so it's best to also take other tools into consideration. If it was truly "natufian like" then they wouldn't have an additional "eef" like ancestey in proportion to what a rough half half (levant PPN would be.

Natufian Hunter-Gatherer :35.0%
Anatolian Neolithic Farmer :27.4%
Zagrosian Neolithic Farmer :17.2%
East African Hunter-Gatherer :11.8%
Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer :5.0%
North African Neolithic Farmer :3.6%

What?! They wouldn't have a graph with Arabian HG if Arabs really derived direct ancestry from natufian. I don't see any reason why they would lie about it and the distances when modelling Arabs with natufian samples is way too high to be taken seriously

Anyway let's just wait and see what comes out of the Arabian peninsular then we can discuss it

[Levantine_Viking]

What?! They wouldn't have a graph with Arabian HG if Arabs really derived direct ancestry from natufian. I don't see any reason why they would lie about it and the distances when modelling Arabs with natufian samples is way too high to be taken seriously

Anyway let's just wait and see what comes out of the Arabian peninsular then we can discuss it

OK you're not understanding though. Arabs in the levant and sinai region most likely came from northwest arabia originally and there were definitely Arabs there, who were natufian rich, and some speculate that this is where Arabs originated, not necessarily in the southern peninsula. Jordan EBA is Arabian shifted, and very natufian, most likely because its close to the world of the nabateans.

[nee4speed111]

Untitled.jpg

In regards to the discussion of Natufian or Natufian related ancestry, attached is the average for most MENA populations sorted from highest to lowest. Samaritans retain a good deal of it, more than both Palestinian and Lebanese Christians which is interesting. Also there is obviously something missing with Arabian populations, as was mentioned before by Gentica it is likely that their Natufian ancestry is actually from some sort of Native Arabian HG population that forms a sister ancestry to the Natufians, with some sort of enriched Iran-N population being the mixture required to get modern Arabians, perhaps from the Bronze age Levant or Mesopotamia would be my guess.

[Táltos]

Thread is closed and under review. You guys were already warned a few days ago, don't be surprised if you receive an infraction.