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Thread: Could Western Jews (Ash. and Seph.) descend from Aegeans and Levantine admixture?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Your Palermitan results aren't exactly like the ones I have so I am going to run mine later and see how they come out and I expect that disparity to disappear.

    Two of my close cousins from there get 20% for Middle Eastern farmer so there may be sampling bias explaining why yours don't match Calabria or Crete.
    My Palermo sample doesn't really differ from Ajeje Brazorf Messina and Syracuse sample, actually it lies in between Messina/Calabria and Trapani which makes sense going by geography. Also one of my Palermo sample got over 20% Middle Eastern but some went as low as 13%, Calabria for some reason has very high Near Eastern as much as the Dodecanese but less than Cypriots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by giorgio View Post
    My Palermo sample doesn't really differ from Ajeje Brazorf Messina and Syracuse sample, actually it lies in between Messina/Calabria and Trapani which makes sense going by geography. Also one of my Palermo sample got over 20% Middle Eastern but some went as low as 13%, Calabria for some reason has very high Near Eastern as much as the Dodecanese but less than Cypriots.
    I will run all my Palermitans and see how it comes out. Of the ones I can think of they are closer to Calabria than to Trapani.

    Not sure why you keep insisting Syracuse is exactly like Messina when it isn't, it's the least Near Eastern part of Sicily.

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    Finally, found a half Lebanese (Christian), half Tuscan.

    K36 similarity map:
     




    K13 oracle:
     

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 31.05
    2 North_Atlantic 24.66
    3 West_Med 19.81
    4 West_Asian 13.32
    5 Red_Sea 5.50
    6 Baltic 4.47


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Italian_Abruzzo @ 6.347828
    2 West_Sicilian @ 6.712862
    3 South_Italian @ 8.908321
    4 East_Sicilian @ 9.760440
    5 Central_Greek @ 10.325476
    6 Tuscan @ 10.788864
    7 Sephardic_Jewish @ 11.735022
    8 Ashkenazi @ 12.172920
    9 Italian_Jewish @ 12.433663
    10 Greek_Thessaly @ 14.536860
    11 Algerian_Jewish @ 14.664277
    12 Tunisian_Jewish @ 17.050114
    13 Libyan_Jewish @ 17.871721
    14 North_Italian @ 17.919142
    15 Cyprian @ 22.827562
    16 Bulgarian @ 23.031487
    17 Romanian @ 24.386898
    18 Lebanese_Muslim @ 25.635603
    19 Spanish_Extremadura @ 25.835321
    20 Portuguese @ 26.325495

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.627826


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Spanish_Andalucia +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.538615


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 French_Basque + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian @ 2.441395
    2 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.538615
    3 French_Basque + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Tuscan @ 2.597441
    4 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.615500
    5 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.627826
    6 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.714128
    7 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.733305
    8 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.803362
    9 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.914537
    10 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.945072
    11 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.972016
    12 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.978972
    13 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.997529
    14 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.050648
    15 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.088125
    16 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.108637
    17 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.111950
    18 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Portuguese + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.164787
    19 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.191739
    20 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.195174



    For some reason, she's represented mostly as 50% Lebanese (makes sense), 50% Spanish. This is because on many occasions, when I ran North Italians, they seem to have high correlation with Catalans and North East Spanish people.

    Also, please equate the results with Ashkenazi average:
     




    And also, Sephardic average:
     




    As you can see, her affinity to Tuscans is much more noticeable, as his lack of affinity with Greeks - not as much as both Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews.

    I think he best fits with Lazio Italians.

    Also, as you can see, her oracle shows Tuscans before any Jewish population, a hint to her ancestry.

    For me, this shows once again, that the usual formula of "50% Tuscans, 50% Levantine", doesn't work.
    Last edited by Erikl86; 07-11-2018 at 04:31 PM.

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    K13 giving Spanish instead of Italian is the calculators fault. I'm sure that EUTest will do a better job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Finally, found a half Lebanese (Christian), half Tuscan.

    K36 similarity map:
     




    K13 oracle:
     

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 31.05
    2 North_Atlantic 24.66
    3 West_Med 19.81
    4 West_Asian 13.32
    5 Red_Sea 5.50
    6 Baltic 4.47


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Italian_Abruzzo @ 6.347828
    2 West_Sicilian @ 6.712862
    3 South_Italian @ 8.908321
    4 East_Sicilian @ 9.760440
    5 Central_Greek @ 10.325476
    6 Tuscan @ 10.788864
    7 Sephardic_Jewish @ 11.735022
    8 Ashkenazi @ 12.172920
    9 Italian_Jewish @ 12.433663
    10 Greek_Thessaly @ 14.536860
    11 Algerian_Jewish @ 14.664277
    12 Tunisian_Jewish @ 17.050114
    13 Libyan_Jewish @ 17.871721
    14 North_Italian @ 17.919142
    15 Cyprian @ 22.827562
    16 Bulgarian @ 23.031487
    17 Romanian @ 24.386898
    18 Lebanese_Muslim @ 25.635603
    19 Spanish_Extremadura @ 25.835321
    20 Portuguese @ 26.325495

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Lebanese_Druze +50% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.627826


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Lebanese_Druze +25% Spanish_Andalucia +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.538615


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 French_Basque + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + North_Italian @ 2.441395
    2 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.538615
    3 French_Basque + Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Tuscan @ 2.597441
    4 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.615500
    5 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.627826
    6 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.714128
    7 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia @ 2.733305
    8 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.803362
    9 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.914537
    10 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.945072
    11 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.972016
    12 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.978972
    13 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.997529
    14 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.050648
    15 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.088125
    16 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.108637
    17 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.111950
    18 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Portuguese + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.164787
    19 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Cantabria + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.191739
    20 Lebanese_Druze + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.195174



    For some reason, she's represented mostly as 50% Lebanese (makes sense), 50% Spanish. This is because on many occasions, when I ran North Italians, they seem to have high correlation with Catalans and North East Spanish people.

    Also, please equate the results with Ashkenazi average:
     




    And also, Sephardic average:
     




    As you can see, her affinity to Tuscans is much more noticeable, as his lack of affinity with Greeks - not as much as both Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews.

    I think he best fits with Lazio Italians.

    Also, as you can see, her oracle shows Tuscans before any Jewish population, a hint to her ancestry.

    For me, this shows once again, that the usual formula of "50% Tuscans, 50% Levantine", doesn't work.
    Interestingly Sephardi and Ashkenazi Jews have around the same level of overlap with North Italians, however what makes them different is the affinity towards North Europe. If you notice the Ashkenazi sample gets 33 overlap with Norway where as the Sephardi Sample only has 20, another huge difference is the overlap with Northern Russia in the Case of Ashkenazim you see it as 26 while Sephardis have only 10. Ironically the Sephardi sample has a lower overlap rate with Spain than Ashkenazim do. Another strange thing I noticed that Ashkenazi Jews have a slighly higher overlap with Anatolia, maybe some Hittite like ancestry exist amongs Ashkenazi Jews that haven't affected Sephardim that much.

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    The half Lebanese half Tuscan comes out close to Apulians, Abruzzese and Trapanese.

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    Quote Originally Posted by giorgio View Post
    Interestingly Sephardi and Ashkenazi Jews have around the same level of overlap with North Italians, however what makes them different is the affinity towards North Europe. If you notice the Ashkenazi sample gets 33 overlap with Norway where as the Sephardi Sample only has 20, another huge difference is the overlap with Northern Russia in the Case of Ashkenazim you see it as 26 while Sephardis have only 10. Ironically the Sephardi sample has a lower overlap rate with Spain than Ashkenazim do. Another strange thing I noticed that Ashkenazi Jews have a slighly higher overlap with Anatolia, maybe some Hittite like ancestry exist amongs Ashkenazi Jews that haven't affected Sephardim that much.
    I think the small East shift of Ashkenazim also creates slightly higher affinity towards Anatolia as a general Eastward cline, compare to Sephardim.
    Sephardim have less affinity with Spain than Ashkenazim is ironic, but makes sense - Sephardim are more south shifted towards North Africa as a result of Berber admixture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    The half Lebanese half Tuscan comes out close to Apulians, Abruzzese and Trapanese.
    And much higher affinity with Tuscany and North Italy than both Western Jews, and less affinity with Greek populations (mainland). I'll run nMonte tomorrow, I'm sure North and Central Italians will get shorter distances than Greek mainlanders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nive1526 View Post
    K13 giving Spanish instead of Italian is the calculators fault. I'm sure that EUTest will do a better job.
    I'm not sure, this is what full Tuscan gets on K13 and K15 Eutest oracles:

    K13
     

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 31.84
    2 West_Med 28.15
    3 East_Med 24.88
    4 West_Asian 7.80
    5 Baltic 4.95
    6 Red_Sea 2.22


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Tuscan @ 8.484029
    2 North_Italian @ 9.170233
    3 West_Sicilian @ 13.625156
    4 Spanish_Andalucia @ 14.079474
    5 Spanish_Extremadura @ 14.756635
    6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 15.300783
    7 Spanish_Murcia @ 15.317552
    8 Spanish_Valencia @ 15.664165
    9 Portuguese @ 15.877614
    10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 17.006817
    11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 17.586870
    12 Spanish_Cataluna @ 17.643494
    13 Spanish_Galicia @ 17.688929
    14 Spanish_Aragon @ 19.100908
    15 South_Italian @ 19.200386
    16 Greek_Thessaly @ 19.225689
    17 East_Sicilian @ 19.527765
    18 Central_Greek @ 19.600840
    19 Spanish_Cantabria @ 19.921991
    20 Southwest_French @ 22.138842

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% South_Italian +50% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.751990


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% French_Basque +25% Italian_Jewish +25% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.773394


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.534945
    2 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.624686
    3 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.766204
    4 French_Basque + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze @ 3.773394
    5 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + South_Italian + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.856581
    6 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.875555
    7 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.879445
    8 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.894033
    9 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + South_Italian + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.894867
    10 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + French_Basque + Lebanese_Druze @ 3.961178
    11 Cyprian + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.966883
    12 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.976399
    13 Cyprian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish @ 4.017128
    14 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.055753
    15 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.064733
    16 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Murcia @ 4.081732
    17 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.082634
    18 French_Basque + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.113022
    19 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.132905
    20 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.157381


    K15 Eutest:
     

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic 26.49
    2 East_Med 24.34
    3 West_Med 22.66
    4 North_Sea 15.58
    5 West_Asian 6.88
    6 Baltic 2.34
    7 Red_Sea 1.71


    Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
    15 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Tuscan @ 10.387869
    2 North_Italian @ 11.094722
    3 West_Sicilian @ 13.302254
    4 Spanish_Andalucia @ 15.032033
    5 Spanish_Murcia @ 15.298472
    6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 15.627373
    7 Spanish_Extremadura @ 15.918748
    8 Spanish_Valencia @ 16.363138
    9 Portuguese @ 16.995930
    10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 17.544437
    11 Spanish_Cataluna @ 17.816591
    12 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 17.825600
    13 East_Sicilian @ 18.722073
    14 South_Italian @ 18.818159
    15 Spanish_Aragon @ 18.937325
    16 Spanish_Galicia @ 19.069944
    17 Greek @ 19.192541
    18 Central_Greek @ 19.267185
    19 Greek_Thessaly @ 20.007277
    20 Spanish_Cantabria @ 20.535461

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Italian_Jewish +50% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.988976


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Italian_Jewish +25% Spanish_Aragon +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.988976


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
    1 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Murcia @ 6.829782
    2 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 6.867503
    3 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Murcia @ 6.962862
    4 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.980888
    5 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 6.988976
    6 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.003384
    7 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.028072
    8 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 7.047823
    9 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.068310
    10 Italian_Jewish + South_Italian + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.114369
    11 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + South_Italian + Spanish_Murcia @ 7.138030
    12 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.146023
    13 Algerian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.148216
    14 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.172226
    15 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.174191
    16 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.189451
    17 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Extremadura @ 7.206260
    18 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + North_Italian @ 7.207821
    19 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.210716
    20 Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.213705

    Done.


    And this is how Bergamo Italian looks like:

    K13:
     

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 34.20
    2 West_Med 29.25
    3 East_Med 25.39
    4 Baltic 10.39


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 North_Italian @ 10.515998
    2 Spanish_Valencia @ 12.685174
    3 Tuscan @ 13.309210
    4 Spanish_Andalucia @ 13.315350
    5 Spanish_Murcia @ 13.428851
    6 Portuguese @ 13.856836
    7 Spanish_Extremadura @ 13.875972
    8 Spanish_Cataluna @ 15.193517
    9 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 15.231362
    10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 15.357114
    11 Spanish_Galicia @ 15.555652
    12 Spanish_Aragon @ 16.855822
    13 Spanish_Cantabria @ 17.340839
    14 Southwest_French @ 18.911747
    15 West_Sicilian @ 19.442905
    16 French @ 21.844603
    17 Italian_Abruzzo @ 21.943457
    18 Greek_Thessaly @ 22.256924
    19 Romanian @ 25.115866
    20 East_Sicilian @ 25.187941

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Spanish_Valencia +50% Tuscan @ 9.069428


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Spanish_Valencia +25% Spanish_Valencia +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 8.663074


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.816030
    2 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.827989
    3 Algerian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.923076
    4 Ashkenazi + Sardinian + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.142500
    5 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 8.155891
    6 Ashkenazi + Sardinian + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.184180
    7 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Aragon @ 8.228918
    8 Algerian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.260448
    9 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cataluna @ 8.260926
    10 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.277028
    11 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + South_Dutch + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.283873
    12 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.295675
    13 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Murcia + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.300833
    14 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.306324
    15 Ashkenazi + Sardinian + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Cataluna @ 8.318684
    16 Italian_Jewish + Orcadian + Sardinian + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.321366
    17 Algerian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.333251
    18 Danish + Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.361090
    19 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Spanish_Valencia + West_German @ 8.365845
    20 French + Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.370370

    Done.


    I have seen some Bergamo Italians get 50% Sardinian though.


    Seems like North Italians are closer to NE Spanish and South French and other Southwest Europeans, while South Italians and Sicilians cluster tightly with Greeks.

    Western Jews seem to also cluster tightly with Greeks but the admixture for sure happened before Greeks got Slavic admixture and as a result of this Western Jews cluster tightly with South Italians and Sicilians.
    Last edited by Erikl86; 07-11-2018 at 09:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    I'm not sure, this is what full Tuscan gets on K13 and K15 Eutest oracles:

    K13
     

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 31.84
    2 West_Med 28.15
    3 East_Med 24.88
    4 West_Asian 7.80
    5 Baltic 4.95
    6 Red_Sea 2.22


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Tuscan @ 8.484029
    2 North_Italian @ 9.170233
    3 West_Sicilian @ 13.625156
    4 Spanish_Andalucia @ 14.079474
    5 Spanish_Extremadura @ 14.756635
    6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 15.300783
    7 Spanish_Murcia @ 15.317552
    8 Spanish_Valencia @ 15.664165
    9 Portuguese @ 15.877614
    10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 17.006817
    11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 17.586870
    12 Spanish_Cataluna @ 17.643494
    13 Spanish_Galicia @ 17.688929
    14 Spanish_Aragon @ 19.100908
    15 South_Italian @ 19.200386
    16 Greek_Thessaly @ 19.225689
    17 East_Sicilian @ 19.527765
    18 Central_Greek @ 19.600840
    19 Spanish_Cantabria @ 19.921991
    20 Southwest_French @ 22.138842

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% South_Italian +50% Spanish_Aragon @ 4.751990


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% French_Basque +25% Italian_Jewish +25% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.773394


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.534945
    2 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.624686
    3 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.766204
    4 French_Basque + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze @ 3.773394
    5 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + South_Italian + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.856581
    6 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.875555
    7 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.879445
    8 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.894033
    9 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + South_Italian + Spanish_Valencia @ 3.894867
    10 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + French_Basque + Lebanese_Druze @ 3.961178
    11 Cyprian + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.966883
    12 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.976399
    13 Cyprian + French_Basque + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish @ 4.017128
    14 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 4.055753
    15 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia @ 4.064733
    16 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Murcia @ 4.081732
    17 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.082634
    18 French_Basque + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.113022
    19 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 4.132905
    20 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.157381


    K15 Eutest:
     

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic 26.49
    2 East_Med 24.34
    3 West_Med 22.66
    4 North_Sea 15.58
    5 West_Asian 6.88
    6 Baltic 2.34
    7 Red_Sea 1.71


    Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
    15 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Tuscan @ 10.387869
    2 North_Italian @ 11.094722
    3 West_Sicilian @ 13.302254
    4 Spanish_Andalucia @ 15.032033
    5 Spanish_Murcia @ 15.298472
    6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 15.627373
    7 Spanish_Extremadura @ 15.918748
    8 Spanish_Valencia @ 16.363138
    9 Portuguese @ 16.995930
    10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 17.544437
    11 Spanish_Cataluna @ 17.816591
    12 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 17.825600
    13 East_Sicilian @ 18.722073
    14 South_Italian @ 18.818159
    15 Spanish_Aragon @ 18.937325
    16 Spanish_Galicia @ 19.069944
    17 Greek @ 19.192541
    18 Central_Greek @ 19.267185
    19 Greek_Thessaly @ 20.007277
    20 Spanish_Cantabria @ 20.535461

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Italian_Jewish +50% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.988976


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Italian_Jewish +25% Spanish_Aragon +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.988976


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++
    1 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Murcia @ 6.829782
    2 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 6.867503
    3 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Murcia @ 6.962862
    4 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 6.980888
    5 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 6.988976
    6 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.003384
    7 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia @ 7.028072
    8 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 7.047823
    9 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.068310
    10 Italian_Jewish + South_Italian + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.114369
    11 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + South_Italian + Spanish_Murcia @ 7.138030
    12 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 7.146023
    13 Algerian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.148216
    14 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.172226
    15 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.174191
    16 Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.189451
    17 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Extremadura @ 7.206260
    18 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Italian_Jewish + North_Italian @ 7.207821
    19 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.210716
    20 Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Aragon @ 7.213705

    Done.


    And this is how Bergamo Italian looks like:

    K13:
     

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 34.20
    2 West_Med 29.25
    3 East_Med 25.39
    4 Baltic 10.39


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 North_Italian @ 10.515998
    2 Spanish_Valencia @ 12.685174
    3 Tuscan @ 13.309210
    4 Spanish_Andalucia @ 13.315350
    5 Spanish_Murcia @ 13.428851
    6 Portuguese @ 13.856836
    7 Spanish_Extremadura @ 13.875972
    8 Spanish_Cataluna @ 15.193517
    9 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 15.231362
    10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 15.357114
    11 Spanish_Galicia @ 15.555652
    12 Spanish_Aragon @ 16.855822
    13 Spanish_Cantabria @ 17.340839
    14 Southwest_French @ 18.911747
    15 West_Sicilian @ 19.442905
    16 French @ 21.844603
    17 Italian_Abruzzo @ 21.943457
    18 Greek_Thessaly @ 22.256924
    19 Romanian @ 25.115866
    20 East_Sicilian @ 25.187941

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Spanish_Valencia +50% Tuscan @ 9.069428


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Spanish_Valencia +25% Spanish_Valencia +25% Tunisian_Jewish @ 8.663074


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.816030
    2 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.827989
    3 Algerian_Jewish + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 7.923076
    4 Ashkenazi + Sardinian + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.142500
    5 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 8.155891
    6 Ashkenazi + Sardinian + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.184180
    7 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Aragon @ 8.228918
    8 Algerian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.260448
    9 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cataluna @ 8.260926
    10 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.277028
    11 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + South_Dutch + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.283873
    12 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.295675
    13 Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Murcia + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.300833
    14 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.306324
    15 Ashkenazi + Sardinian + Spanish_Cataluna + Spanish_Cataluna @ 8.318684
    16 Italian_Jewish + Orcadian + Sardinian + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.321366
    17 Algerian_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon + Spanish_Valencia + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.333251
    18 Danish + Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.361090
    19 Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Spanish_Valencia + West_German @ 8.365845
    20 French + Italian_Jewish + Sardinian + Spanish_Valencia @ 8.370370

    Done.


    I have seen some Bergamo Italians get 50% Sardinian though.


    Seems like North Italians are closer to NE Spanish and South French and other Southwest Europeans, while South Italians and Sicilians cluster tightly with Greeks.

    Western Jews seem to also cluster tightly with Greeks but the admixture for sure happened before Greeks got Slavic admixture and as a result of this Western Jews cluster tightly with South Italians and Sicilians.
    If you wonder what a half Ashkenazi half Southern Italian kit looks like I can post one result like that.

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