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Thread: Could Western Jews (Ash. and Seph.) descend from Aegeans and Levantine admixture?

  1. #9231
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    Here are my Vahaduo K13 results:

    Ancient (looks like they mixed a lot of different samples from different time periods):

     
    Target: JohnDoe
    Distance: 0.2322% / 0.23222172
    21.8 SZ31_szolad_hungary_longobard
    8.0 I8215_iberia
    7.8 Chalcolithic_Age_Anatolian_Barcinhoyuk._Turkey_394 3_BC
    6.8 RISE21_Karlstrup_Denmark_3092_years_N1a1a2
    4.8 caananite_ERS1790733_caananite_ERS1790733
    4.6 copt315_copt315
    4.4 Kura_Araxes
    3.6 SZ40_szolad_hungary_longobard
    3.4 I8215_2iberia
    3.4 I8215_3iberia
    3.2 I1658_ArmeniaEBA
    3.2 Minoan_Minoan_Lasithi
    2.6 Sidon_BA_ERS1790733
    2.6 SZ19_szolad_hungary_longobard
    2.6 SZ20_szolad_hungary_longobard
    1.6 i1178_peqi_in_Israel_4500_3900_BCE
    1.6 SZ45.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    1.4 IA_Boville_Ernica_R1021
    1.4 jk2911_Egypt_769_560_BC_2
    1.4 NE1_Polgar_Ferenci_hat_Hungary_5070_5310_cal_BC_F_ U5b2c
    1.2 CL38_collegno_italy_longobard
    0.8 Anatolian_EF_I0707
    0.8 ArmeniaCA_I1631_Armenia_425004050_BC
    0.8 Sope_r_Jabara_Estonia_Corded_Ware_culture_4575_435 0_F_H5a1
    0.6 CL49_collegno_italy_longobard
    0.6 I7499_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE2
    0.6 ScythianMoldova_SCY197_Moldova_288502632_BC
    0.6 Sidon_BA_ERS1790730
    0.4 I7424_morisco2
    0.4 RISE00_Corded_Estonia_RISE00_Corded_Estonia
    0.4 SIJ003_Sinyukha_Late_Maykop_5174_U4c1
    0.2 Andronovo_RISE503_Russia_174601298_BC
    0.2 Bar8_Anatolian_Neolithic_Barcin_6212_6030_BCE8222_ 8040_ybp
    0.2 Biaka00448_Africa
    0.2 Bot15_Rio_Doce._Minas_Gerais._Brazil
    0.2 CL121_collegno_italy_longobard
    0.2 CL30_collegno_italy_longobard
    0.2 I0164_Unetice
    0.2 I12516_iberia
    0.2 KLEI10_KLEI10_Kleitos_Greece_4230_3995calBCE_years _old_g2a_k1a2
    0.2 LevantPPNB_I0867_Israel_730006750
    0.2 N36_Neolithic_Kujawy_Lengyel_BKG
    0.2 RISE371_Szoreg_C_(Sziv_Utca)_Hungary
    0.2 RISE42_Marbjerg_Denmark_3681_years_M_CT_CTS2711_H2 c1


     
    Distance to: JohnDoe
    5.02848884 SZ40_szolad_hungary_longobard
    9.33258807 SZ31_szolad_hungary_longobard
    9.43620157 CL38_collegno_italy_longobard
    10.20998531 IA_Prenestina_Selicata_R437
    10.45481707 CrusaderSI53KingdomofJerusalem
    10.48051525 CL121_collegno_italy_longobard
    11.35162984 CL30_collegno_italy_longobard
    11.48862916 IA_Ardea_R850
    12.63638398 I3808_morisco_I3808_morisco
    13.32338546 I3808_iberia
    13.47439423 CL25_collegno_italy_longobard
    14.09366524 I8215_3iberia
    14.34674528 I8215_2iberia
    14.38984712 SZ19_szolad_hungary_longobard
    14.60018835 SZ31_Longobard_M_T1a1a_PF5620_U4c2a_6-th_century
    15.34542277 I7499_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE2
    15.85742413 SZ37_szolad_hungary_longobard
    15.96168537 I8215_iberia
    16.15040247 SZ36.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    16.16058167 I7424_morisco2
    16.40332588 I7424_morisco
    17.57186387 Chalcolithic_Age_Anatolian_Barcinhoyuk._Turkey_394 3_BC
    17.60004545 SZ1.SG_szolad_hungary_longobard
    18.11062671 MJ12_Thraco_Kimmerian
    18.15898125 SZ32_szolad_hungary_longobard


    K13 Updated: I find it interesting that instead of giving me Ashkenazi in the admixture it gives me Italian Jewish instead. I'm assuming it represents a sort of Levantine/Aegean mix?

     
    Target: JohnDoe
    Distance: 2.0135% / 2.01348731
    40.0 Lebanese_Druze
    18.8 Italian_Jewish
    18.2 Spanish_Valencia
    8.8 Greek_Western-Thrace
    8.4 French_Basque
    3.2 Southeast_English
    2.6 Greek_Trabzon


     
    Distance to: JohnDoe
    5.17808845 Campania
    6.03903966 Molise
    6.19787060 Abruzzo
    6.24547836 Calabria
    6.25515787 Malta
    6.28781361 Basilicata
    6.43903720 Sicily
    6.64952630 Apulia
    7.31866791 West_Sicilian
    7.74197649 East_Sicilian
    7.97814515 Greek_Andros_Island
    8.50123520 Ashkenazi
    8.58608758 Sephardic_Jewish
    8.65975750 Central_Greek
    8.78373497 Italian_Jewish
    8.78886796 Moroccan_Jew
    8.91132426 Greek_Symi_Island
    10.86836349 Greek_Dodecanese
    11.18049641 Algerian_Jewish
    11.29028786 Marche
    11.39966228 Greek_Chios
    11.82897291 Lazio
    12.11773906 Greek_Western-Thrace
    12.42808111 Umbria
    12.86260471 GR_Peloponese


    K13 updated without Jewish references:

     
    Target: JohnDoe
    Distance: 2.0654% / 2.06543530
    52.8 Lebanese_Druze
    23.6 Spanish_Valencia
    13.4 Greek_Western-Thrace
    10.2 French_Basque


     
    Distance to: JohnDoe
    5.17808845 Campania
    6.03903966 Molise
    6.19787060 Abruzzo
    6.24547836 Calabria
    6.25515787 Malta
    6.28781361 Basilicata
    6.43903720 Sicily
    6.64952630 Apulia
    7.31866791 West_Sicilian
    7.74197649 East_Sicilian
    7.97814515 Greek_Andros_Island
    8.65975750 Central_Greek
    8.91132426 Greek_Symi_Island
    10.86836349 Greek_Dodecanese
    11.29028786 Marche
    11.39966228 Greek_Chios
    11.82897291 Lazio
    12.11773906 Greek_Western-Thrace
    12.42808111 Umbria
    12.86260471 GR_Peloponese
    13.05847235 Turk_Crete
    13.45042007 Romagna
    13.70243774 Greek_Peloponnese
    13.77622953 Tuscan
    14.29972377 Greek_Thessaly
    I can be certain of one thing, that I know nothing.

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  3. #9232
    Which calculator is better on Vahaduo—Eurogenes K13 from GEDMatch or the updated version? I noticed that there was a wider selection of populations in the updated version so I assume that it would be more accurate. But I think there’s also a chance that populations with close genetic distance (e.g. different types of western Jews; various Brits, etc.) will interchangeable with more populations tested (e.g. an Ashkenazi Jew getting Sephardic percentages and vice versa).

  4. #9233
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    Israel Jerusalem
    Does anyone pay for a MyHeritage subscription? I want to mooch for some pictures to get colorized. I did a few and then ran into a paywall. Had I known, I would've saved them. They seem to do a better job than other sites.

    https://blog.myheritage.com/2020/02/...ady-colorized/
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  6. #9234
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    NW Europe+Ash/Seph Jewish

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    Quote Originally Posted by StillWater View Post
    Does anyone pay for a MyHeritage subscription? I want to mooch for some pictures to get colorized. I did a few and then ran into a paywall. Had I known, I would've saved them. They seem to do a better job than other sites.

    https://blog.myheritage.com/2020/02/...ady-colorized/
    I can do some for you.

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  8. #9235
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    Lord Elhaik has uploaded a lecture:



    I'm good for a week.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  10. #9236
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillWater View Post
    Lord Elhaik has uploaded a lecture:



    I'm good for a week.
    What the hell is this guy going to do when DNA from the ancient Jewish world comes pouring in? Assume a new identity? Talk about making yourself a hostage to fortune. What an imbecile.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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  12. #9237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    What the hell is this guy going to do when DNA from the ancient Jewish world comes pouring in? Assume a new identity? Talk about making yourself a hostage to fortune. What an imbecile.
    He'll claim it's a Zionist Nazi conspiracy.

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  14. #9238
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    Somewhere around the 28th minute, he claims that Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazim turned out to be different from those who didn't speak Yiddish! One of those differences, is that YDNA Q1b was absent among non-Yiddish speaking Ashkenazim. He hypothesizes that among them, it "drifted" away (hard to make out what word he says). Jonah, Erik - vos machtsu?

    Funny enough, I do think he did "discover" something. And that's assimilation and migration dates weren't uniform among Ashkenazim and neither were haplogroups (Geographically). It's my impression that Southeastern Ashkenazim have a higher % of Q lineages and that they also retained Yiddish for longer (due to being further away from the USSR etc).
    Last edited by StillWater; 02-23-2020 at 03:30 AM.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  16. #9239
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    It sounds like an anti-Israel statement around the 33rd minute. (he makes it ambiguous enough to claim otherwise later, but I'm convinced that it's about Israel)
    Last edited by StillWater; 02-23-2020 at 04:12 AM.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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  18. #9240
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillWater View Post
    Somewhere around the 28th minute, he claims that Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazim turned out to be different from those who didn't speak Yiddish! One of those differences, is that YDNA Q1b was absent among non-Yiddish speaking Ashkenazim. He hypothesizes that among them, it "drifted" away (hard to make out what word he says). Jonah, Erik - vos machtsu?

    Funny enough, I do think he did "discover" something. And that's assimilation and migration dates weren't uniform among Ashkenazim and neither were haplogroups (Geographically). It's my impression that Southeastern Ashkenazim have a higher % of Q lineages and that they also retained Yiddish for longer (due to being further away from the USSR etc).
    That's interesting (I didn't bother to watch the video...trying to save whatever brain cells I have left). I thought that in one of his previous papers, he argued that there was no difference. All I can say is that the farthest I can trace my direct paternal line is to Nitra (modern day Slovakia) and I believe that my Germanic surname originated among Czech Jews, which would suggest Yiddish origins. Though I suppose it's possible that my great great grandfather, who came to Vienna from Nitra in the mid-19th century, took the name upon arrival. So I don't know if any of that is helpful.
    Last edited by jonahst; 02-23-2020 at 03:56 AM.

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