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Thread: R0a2m in Ashkenazi

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    R0a2m in Ashkenazi

    One of my cousins has tested his mitochondrial DNA. He carries the mtDNA haplogroup R0a2m. In this connection, I came across a fascinating paper: “Middle eastern genetic legacy in the paternal and maternal gene pools of Chuetas”. I learnt that my cousin’s mtDNA haplogroup is present in 21% of Chueta Sefardi Jews. I also learned from the website LeviteDNA.Org, that the mtDNA haplogroup R is rare in Ashkenazim, its frequency less than 2% (R0a2m's).

    Me and my cousin, who are both near 100% Ashkenazi Jewish according to DNA testing, share ancestors on his direct maternal line. Having read the facts described above, and thereby learned that R0a2m is very rare in Askenazim but very common in Chueata Sefardi Jews, I have a question.

    Does the carrying of R0a2m in my cousin indicate a Sefardi Jewish, or Iberian residing ancestor along his direct maternal line?

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    There were Sefardic people who during the time of the inquisitions settled in central and eastern Europe, and assimilated into the local jewish populations, so it is an interesting possibility IMO.

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    Yes! I agree. I think it indicates Sefardic heritage.

    It is also our family legend that we are a bit Sefardi. Thank you for your reply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylsteen View Post
    There were Sefardic people who during the time of the inquisitions settled in central and eastern Europe, and assimilated into the local jewish populations, so it is an interesting possibility IMO.
    Do you have a link to an article/source for the settling and assimilation of Sefardim to local Jewish populations in eastern and central Europe?

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    R0a2m is the 20th largest Ashkenazi lineage (out of 196 identified Ashkenazi maternal lines, but only 0.91% of Ashkenazim).

    I was always under the impression that it was likely a Judean lineage (much like my own Mt-DNA), and so its presence in both Sephardim and Ashkenazim could have been an indication of being present in an ancestral population, and not necessarily Sephardic>Ashkenazi introgression.

    From browsing FTDNA, I have noticed that the Ashkenazi members of this lineage (only kits I have access to) match at HVR1+HVR2 with Israeli Bedouins, Palestinians, Libyan Sephardim, Syrian Sephardim, and Tunisian Sephardim (all of these individuals have a terminal of R0a, likely due to not testing further).
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.4552% / 0.02455222
    34.4 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    19.2 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    13.6 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    9.2 DEU_MA
    8.4 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    7.8 EGY_Hellenistic
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.4 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    R0a2m is the 20th largest Ashkenazi lineage (out of 196 identified Ashkenazi maternal lines, but only 0.91% of Ashkenazim).

    I was always under the impression that it was likely a Judean lineage (much like my own Mt-DNA), and so its presence in both Sephardim and Ashkenazim could have been an indication of being present in an ancestral population, and not necessarily Sephardic>Ashkenazi introgression.

    From browsing FTDNA, I have noticed that the Ashkenazi members of this lineage (only kits I have access to) match at HVR1+HVR2 with Israeli Bedouins, Palestinians, Libyan Sephardim, Syrian Sephardim, and Tunisian Sephardim (all of these individuals have a terminal of R0a, likely due to not testing further).
    I think that R0a2m, though tracing back to the Near East, originates in Iberia. If this was a Judean lineage then it would be found it significant percentages in the Levant and in other Jewish diaspora groups. Therefore, I am inclined to believe its tiny appearance in Ashkenazim is consequent to Sefardi--> Ashkenazi gene flow.

    BTW, where did you get the 0.91% stat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by genealogist_jewish View Post
    I think that R0a2m, though tracing back to the Near East, originates in Iberia. If this was a Judean lineage then it would be found it significant percentages in the Levant and in other Jewish diaspora groups. Therefore, I am inclined to believe its tiny appearance in Ashkenazim is consequent to Sefardi--> Ashkenazi gene flow.

    BTW, where did you get the 0.91% stat?
    Not how things work. Different lineages made it into different diasporas. Different lineages survived in different diasporas. As for the rest of the Levant, you'll find there are MTDNA lineages in the Levant with the same MRCA date. If the lineage was concentrated to Judeans, then it makes sense why we haven't found a Levantine non-Jew in it yet and may never.
    Last edited by StillWater; 02-11-2021 at 02:20 PM.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

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    Are you suggesting that R0a2m originated in the Levant? What evidence is there for this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by genealogist_jewish View Post
    Are you suggesting that R0a2m originated in the Levant? What evidence is there for this?
    Look at the date (1900YBP). Granted, MRCA dates for MTDNA are less trustworthy. MTDNA rarely mutates. Unlikely that Judeans migrated with plain R0a2 and then mutated to R0a2m in Iberia. It looks exactly like a typical Judean lineage. Did it spread through Iberia? I don't know, but highly unlikely it mutated in Iberia.
    הִנְנִי֩ מֵבִ֨יא אוֹתָ֜ם מֵאֶ֣רֶץ צָפ֗וֹן

    Jeremiah 31

    Other potential and/or likely recent lineages: J-L816, J-PF5456, E-FGC56023

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by genealogist_jewish View Post
    I think that R0a2m, though tracing back to the Near East, originates in Iberia. If this was a Judean lineage then it would be found it significant percentages in the Levant and in other Jewish diaspora groups. Therefore, I am inclined to believe its tiny appearance in Ashkenazim is consequent to Sefardi--> Ashkenazi gene flow.

    BTW, where did you get the 0.91% stat?
    Source for R0a2m being the 20th largest: https://jewishdna.net/Mtdna.html
    Source for R0a2m being 0.91%: https://sites.google.com/view/ashken...ews?authuser=0

    I agree with Stillwater's point - R0a2m doesn't have to have been found in significant percentages in the Levant or in other Diaspora groups in order for it to be Judean. Being found in both Ashkenazim and Sephardim, in my opinion, can on its own suggest a Judean origin. Given the TMCRA of 1900 ybp, I'd sooner be inclined to suggest that R0a2m was present in the ancestral population of Ashkenazim and Sephardim.

    (I'm not saying Sephardic > Ashkenazi introgression isn't impossible for this lineage)
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.4552% / 0.02455222
    34.4 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    19.2 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    13.6 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    9.2 DEU_MA
    8.4 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    7.8 EGY_Hellenistic
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.4 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

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