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Thread: Could Western Jews (Ash. and Seph.) descend from Aegeans and Levantine admixture?

  1. #5141
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    Finally got my mothers results. She is Sephardic from Turkey, half from Istanbul, half from Izmir with no known Ashkenazi, Italqim, Romaniote or Mizrahi. Her results I guess are pretty 'Western Jewish'. The Italian Jewish average is her closest autosomal population. She is also closer to Eriks Romaniote samples then the Sephardic samples from Bulgaria and Turkey. Closest matches below.

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"

    Italian_Jew 1.334850
    Romaniote_Jew 1.383559
    Maltese 1.528130
    Sephardic_Jew 1.646608
    Libyan_Jew 1.656907
    Moroccan_Jew 1.690303
    Ashkenazi_Jew 1.707834
    Tunisian_Jew 1.778843
    From the analysis below, my mum appears within Sephardic Jewish variation I think and possibly a tiny bit more North African shifted and her results are closer to Sephardic Jews then Romaniote Jews.

    [1] "distance%=0.6731"

    Italian_Jew

    Italian_Abruzzo,54.4
    Lebanese_Druze,36
    Mozabite,9.6

    [1] "distance%=0.8283"

    Sephardic_Jew

    Italian_Abruzzo,50.4
    Lebanese_Druze,38.2
    Mozabite,11.4

    [1] "distance%=1.2853"

    Seabass Mother

    Italian_Abruzzo,49.8
    Lebanese_Druze,36
    Mozabite,14.2


    [1] "distance%=0.6974"

    Romaniote_Jew

    Lebanese_Druze,49.4
    Italian_Abruzzo,42.8
    Mozabite,7.8
    An analysis with ancients below.

    [1] "distance%=1.26"

    Seabass Mother

    Anatolia_EBA_Isparta,30.2
    Levant_BA_North,29
    Iberia_Northeast_c.6-8CE_ES,19.2
    Guanche,11
    Iberia_Northeast_Greek,7
    Italy_Medieval_Collegno,3.6
    Edit: LOL apologies if anyone got excited seeing there was some activity in this thread, only to just see this
    Last edited by Seabass; 04-08-2019 at 02:07 PM.

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  3. #5142
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    I ran the same test from a haplogroup perspective both male and female.
    The distributions match sicilians almost perfectly.
    This infers converts with almost nothing levantine left if there even was - could just be pure converts.

  4. #5143
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkkangas View Post
    I ran the same test from a haplogroup perspective both male and female.
    The distributions match sicilians almost perfectly.
    This infers converts with almost nothing levantine left if there even was - could just be pure converts.
    Care to share these results?

    Because I'm certain that what you just wrote is wrong.
    Last edited by jonahst; 04-14-2019 at 05:48 AM.

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  6. #5144
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    With the lack of activity on the thread.. maybe now is a good time to re-visit the Y-dna of Ashkenazi Jews?
    There seems to be different opinions from one study to another and forum to forum..
    When we take a closer look how many Y DNA Subclades are definitively of Middle Eastern origin apposed to possibly of middle eastern origin apposed to possibly Southern European to definitively European etc etc ?

    PS: I have amongst many others a new full Ashkenazi DNA relative with the Classic Surname of LAZARUS!
    Back again from the dead,the“Raising of Lazarus”
    There Y-DNA Subclade is: J-L556
    Last edited by Claudio; 04-14-2019 at 03:34 PM.

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  8. #5145
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonahst View Post
    Care to share these results?

    Because I'm certain that what you just wrote is wrong.
    It doesn't make sense either because Sicilians also have some degree of Levantine haplogroups though unlike Ashkenazim, in Sicily it's a sizable minority of both y-dna and mtdna, whereas in Ashkenazim it's almost entirely the y-dna and almost none of the mtdna.

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  10. #5146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    It doesn't make sense either because Sicilians also have some degree of Levantine haplogroups though unlike Ashkenazim, in Sicily it's a sizable minority of both y-dna and mtdna, whereas in Ashkenazim it's almost entirely the y-dna and almost none of the mtdna.
    Found this for a Sicilian comparison:A69988AD-5672-4E99-8207-ED0BCFEB3181.jpeg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudio View Post
    Found this for a Sicilian comparison:A69988AD-5672-4E99-8207-ED0BCFEB3181.jpeg
    I am not sure why they would list haplogroup I as being of Elymian origin when Elymians were most likely (and even according to their own map) from central Anatolia (this explains why although the language is not fully deciphered, evidence so far links it to Hittite). Wouldn't haplogroup I be more likely from other places in Europe?

    I would think Elymians would have been J2 and R1b (eastern branches).

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  14. #5148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seabass View Post
    Finally got my mothers results. She is Sephardic from Turkey, half from Istanbul, half from Izmir with no known Ashkenazi, Italqim, Romaniote or Mizrahi. Her results I guess are pretty 'Western Jewish'. The Italian Jewish average is her closest autosomal population. She is also closer to Eriks Romaniote samples then the Sephardic samples from Bulgaria and Turkey. Closest matches below.



    From the analysis below, my mum appears within Sephardic Jewish variation I think and possibly a tiny bit more North African shifted and her results are closer to Sephardic Jews then Romaniote Jews.



    An analysis with ancients below.



    Edit: LOL apologies if anyone got excited seeing there was some activity in this thread, only to just see this
    when I try to repeat your test, I realized that taking average test populations is misleading. Therefore I repeated it with individual samples

    the fit scores are not very good. but somehow my score comes out as best. penalty=0 (advised by eurogenes blog recently)


  15. #5149
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    Quote Originally Posted by eolien View Post
    when I try to repeat your test, I realized that taking average test populations is misleading. Therefore I repeated it with individual samples

    the fit scores are not very good. but somehow my score comes out as best. penalty=0 (advised by eurogenes blog recently)


    However when I add all the possible north africans, Mozabite is clearly not preferred although the fit is not much improved.


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  17. #5150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudio View Post
    Yeah but how far back does this Greek catergory go?
    There have been multiple waves of Greek colonists/refugees coming to south Italy/Sicily from ancient Magna Grecia era to - Roman era - to Byzantine - to even late Byzantine 15th Century.
    So basically both prior and post Slavic invasions of Greece.
    Perhaps if you can find a Couple of Sicilian results,one who scores high Greek,apposed to one who scores high Italian,at same levels respectively,but also score similar in all other Admixture departments,you could then compare there Gedmatch results to see what there Baltic scores are in comparison,to see if there is an underlying hidden Slavic elevation in this MyHeritage Greek catergory.
    Which if this turns out to be the case,this might mean itís only picking up post Slavic invasions Greek ancestry in Italy and that there is hidden Greek ancestry in the Italian catergory,which would explain your Catania results perhaps?
    The Slavic component in Greeks (mainland) is from the 7th century on so I wouldn't think it had anything to do with Greek genetic influence in Italy which was many years before (Golden Age on).

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