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Thread: Could Western Jews (Ash. and Seph.) descend from Aegeans and Levantine admixture?

  1. #10591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    This is also visible on most PCAs (including those I posted), South Italians (especially Campanians, Basilicatans, Calabrians, East Sicilians and Apulians) will appear extremely close to Ashkenazi Jews in most dimensions, which contrasts with most fits where Ashkenazim will comparatively more elevated Near Eastern ancestry. As altvred said, this really has more to do with G25 values being PCA coordinates than anything else (hence why this is reflected on PCA plots).
    Which of these two sets of distances do you think is the most fair or close to reality?

    These are the real distances, the ones based directly on scaled coordinates and the first Ashkenazi reference is in 7th place.
    Code:
    Distance to:	Ajeje_Brazorf_scaled
    0.01527052	Italian_Campania
    0.01828729	Italian_Basilicata
    0.01893976	Italian_Apulia
    0.01966552	Italian_Calabria
    0.02057558	Sicilian_East
    0.02238168	Italian_Abruzzo
    0.02343119	Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.02382586	Maltese
    0.02546476	Italian_Molise
    0.02627601	Greek_Crete
    0.02633205	Italian_Lazio
    0.02656083	Sicilian_West
    0.02668553	Ashkenazi_Poland
    0.02715113	Italian_Jew
    0.02779183	Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    0.02817368	Ashkenazi_Ukraine
    0.02954357	Greek_Izmir
    0.02984856	Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    0.03005738	Greek_Kos
    0.03068042	Ashkenazi_Russia
    0.03098956	Greek_Dodecanese
    0.03314027	Italian_Marche
    0.03345160	Greek_Laconia
    0.03352981	Italian_Umbria
    0.03355618	Sephardic_Jew
    These, on the other hand, are the distances you would get from the models you make with the coordinates, and the first Ashkenazi reference falls in 19th place. It looks more like the distances observed with the old GEDmatch calculators....
    Code:
    Distance to:	Ajeje_Brazorf_scaled
    3.89871774	Italian_Calabria
    4.00000000	Italian_Campania
    4.39089968	Italian_Basilicata
    4.88262225	Italian_Apulia
    4.93963561	Italian_Lazio
    5.41848687	Italian_Abruzzo
    5.46991773	Italian_Molise
    6.28649346	Greek_Izmir
    6.87022561	Maltese
    7.25534286	Sicilian_West
    7.28834686	Sicilian_East
    8.01997506	Italian_Umbria
    8.24135911	Greek_Kos
    8.56971411	Italian_Marche
    8.58370549	Greek_Crete
    9.22171351	Greek_Dodecanese
    9.60832972	Italian_Tuscany
    10.09554357	Greek_Laconia
    10.44988038	Ashkenazi_Germany
    10.53755190	Greek_Peloponnese
    11.51347037	Sephardic_Jew
    11.63443166	Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    11.64130577	Ashkenazi_Russia
    11.68588893	Italian_Piedmont
    11.88949116	Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    Are PCA distances more accurate? Maybe they have something that the various models can't grasp?
    [1] "distance%=2.9299"

    Ajeje Brazorf

    EEF,51.4
    BALTIC_BA,12.6
    GANJ_DAREH,10.8
    CHG,10.4
    MIDDLE_EAST,10
    ANE,2.4
    TAFORALT,1.8
    WHG,0.6

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  3. #10592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    Which of these two sets of distances do you think is the most fair or close to reality?

    These are the real distances, the ones based directly on scaled coordinates and the first Ashkenazi reference is in 7th place.

    These, on the other hand, are the distances you would get from the models you make with the coordinates, and the first Ashkenazi reference falls in 19th place. It looks more like the distances observed with the old GEDmatch calculators....

    Are PCA distances more accurate? Maybe they have something that the various models can't grasp?
    Do you mean your distance from the models you get for these populations or the distance of those populations when you model yourself like that with basic references?

    Either way, wouldn't the coordinates you get by modelling using basic references be ignoring some further real shared drift you might have with other modern populations (e.g. due to X actual shared ancestry at some point in time) that comes out in your real coordinates compared to the modelled ones?

    Out of curiosity, what's the order with unscaled data?

  4. #10593
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFSTFD View Post
    Do you mean your distance from the models you get for these populations or the distance of those populations when you model yourself like that with basic references?
    The values used for the distances in the second box I posted are derived from the results of the models for each population. From the unsorted results of the models afterwards, the distances were calculated.

    Quote Originally Posted by DFSTFD View Post
    Either way, wouldn't the coordinates you get by modelling using basic references be ignoring some further real shared drift you might have with other modern populations (e.g. due to X actual shared ancestry at some point in time) that comes out in your real coordinates compared to the modelled ones?
    This is also what I am inclined to believe, namely that scaled or unscaled coordinates represent true distances because perhaps they capture something that "escapes" in the models.

    Quote Originally Posted by DFSTFD View Post
    Out of curiosity, what's the order with unscaled data?
    This is the order. Again, it is unlikely that I am more akin to Abruzzo or Lazio than Calabria and Sicily, considering that all of my ancestors lived in Campania and Basilicata and those regions are quite a bit akin to Calabria, particularly Campania. My confusion stems from the fact that I have been using GEDmatch for years and most of my beliefs are based on its calculators.

    Code:
    Distance to:	Ajeje_Brazorf
    0.00879066	Italian_Campania
    0.00960561	Italian_Abruzzo
    0.01033869	Italian_Basilicata
    0.01042144	Italian_Apulia
    0.01053912	Italian_Lazio
    0.01063218	Maltese
    0.01140453	Italian_Calabria
    0.01198457	Italian_Molise
    0.01238323	Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.01283256	Italian_Jew
    0.01290435	Italian_Umbria
    0.01304071	Sicilian_East
    0.01325794	Italian_Marche
    0.01331002	Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    0.01343348	Sicilian_West
    0.01391745	Ashkenazi_Ukraine
    0.01401207	Ashkenazi_Poland
    0.01409370	Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    0.01415497	Greek_Dodecanese
    0.01434964	Ashkenazi_Russia
    0.01446218	Greek_Crete
    0.01489221	Greek_Kos
    0.01490006	Sephardic_Jew
    0.01529917	Italian_Tuscany
    0.01548229	Romaniote_Jew
    [1] "distance%=2.9299"

    Ajeje Brazorf

    EEF,51.4
    BALTIC_BA,12.6
    GANJ_DAREH,10.8
    CHG,10.4
    MIDDLE_EAST,10
    ANE,2.4
    TAFORALT,1.8
    WHG,0.6

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  6. #10594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    The values used for the distances in the second box I posted are derived from the results of the models for each population. From the unsorted results of the models afterwards, the distances were calculated.



    This is also what I am inclined to believe, namely that scaled or unscaled coordinates represent true distances because perhaps they capture something that "escapes" in the models.



    This is the order. Again, it is unlikely that I am more akin to Abruzzo or Lazio than Calabria and Sicily, considering that all of my ancestors lived in Campania and Basilicata and those regions are quite a bit akin to Calabria, particularly Campania. My confusion stems from the fact that I have been using GEDmatch for years and most of my beliefs are based on its calculators.

    Code:
    Distance to:	Ajeje_Brazorf
    0.00879066	Italian_Campania
    0.00960561	Italian_Abruzzo
    0.01033869	Italian_Basilicata
    0.01042144	Italian_Apulia
    0.01053912	Italian_Lazio
    0.01063218	Maltese
    0.01140453	Italian_Calabria
    0.01198457	Italian_Molise
    0.01238323	Ashkenazi_Germany
    0.01283256	Italian_Jew
    0.01290435	Italian_Umbria
    0.01304071	Sicilian_East
    0.01325794	Italian_Marche
    0.01331002	Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    0.01343348	Sicilian_West
    0.01391745	Ashkenazi_Ukraine
    0.01401207	Ashkenazi_Poland
    0.01409370	Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    0.01415497	Greek_Dodecanese
    0.01434964	Ashkenazi_Russia
    0.01446218	Greek_Crete
    0.01489221	Greek_Kos
    0.01490006	Sephardic_Jew
    0.01529917	Italian_Tuscany
    0.01548229	Romaniote_Jew

    Ajeje.
    What do you score on Gedmatch Eurogenes K13 (should be able to tell from your East med,West Asian, & Red Sea component scores if you are closer to Your average Lazio,Abruzzo Italian over your average Calabrian & Sicilian no?
    Last edited by Claudio; 02-11-2021 at 05:54 PM.

  7. #10595
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyrylBojarski View Post
    I did not support this "theory" about 30% NW Euro and 70% Levantine, but I think Ashkenazi Jews brought more DNA from Rhine region, than people think and automatically means less Southern European DNA. Not only one of models you just showed can represent reality, this can be something between 30% NW Euro + 70% Levantine and this already known makeup 60% Levantine + 30% Southern European + 10% Eastern European. If before settle near Rhine they were Romaniote-like, then this makes Ashkenazi Jews 20% Northern European, of which 10% is Eastern European and 10% is Western European.

    Code:
    Target: Ashkenazi_Ukraine
    Distance: 1.1209% / 0.01120896
    76.8	Romaniote_Jew
    12.8	Polish
    4.2	French_Paris
    3.6	French_Seine-Maritime
    2.6	French_Alsace
    
    Target: Ashkenazi_Russia
    Distance: 1.3166% / 0.01316626
    76.8	Romaniote_Jew
    14.4	Polish
    5.6	French_Paris
    3.2	French_Seine-Maritime
    
    Target: Ashkenazi_Poland
    Distance: 0.9892% / 0.00989227
    79.6	Romaniote_Jew
    12.0	Polish
    5.2	French_Paris
    3.0	French_Seine-Maritime
    0.2	French_Alsace
    
    Target: Ashkenazi_Lithuania
    Distance: 1.3185% / 0.01318517
    79.6	Romaniote_Jew
    15.6	Polish
    3.8	French_Paris
    1.0	French_Seine-Maritime
    
    Target: Ashkenazi_Germany
    Distance: 0.7980% / 0.00797983
    85.4	Romaniote_Jew
    9.6	French_Paris
    3.8	Polish
    1.2	French_Pas-de-Calais
    
    Target: Ashkenazi_Belarussia
    Distance: 1.1304% / 0.01130397
    77.2	Romaniote_Jew
    12.4	Polish
    7.2	French_Paris
    3.2	French_Seine-Maritime

    I read high percentage of Ashkenazi MTDNAs are of Central European origins, is it wrong?
    How Levantine do you propose Romaniotes to be?

  8. #10596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    This is also visible on most PCAs (including those I posted), South Italians (especially Campanians, Basilicatans, Calabrians, East Sicilians and Apulians) will appear extremely close to Ashkenazi Jews in most dimensions, which contrasts with most fits where Ashkenazim will comparatively more elevated Near Eastern ancestry. As altvred said, this really has more to do with G25 values being PCA coordinates than anything else (hence why this is reflected on PCA plots).




    Using the 2-Way Mixed Mode on Vahaduo, I get fits like this:

    Code:
    0.01402985	46.00% Italian_Jew + 54.00% Norwegian
    0.01523673	49.20% Maltese + 50.80% Shetlandic
    0.01569539	49.60% Italian_Campania + 50.40% Shetlandic
    0.01630497	55.00% Danish + 45.00% Italian_Jew
    0.01639827	49.00% Ashkenazi_Belarussia + 51.00% English_Cornwall
    0.01640068	51.00% Ashkenazi_Belarussia + 49.00% Shetlandic
    0.01648837	49.20% Ashkenazi_Russia + 50.80% English_Cornwall
    0.01652830	50.00% Ashkenazi_Lithuania + 50.00% Shetlandic
    0.01697739	51.00% Italian_Basilicata + 49.00% Shetlandic
    0.01730022	49.40% Ashkenazi_Poland + 50.60% Scottish
    0.01762202	50.00% Ashkenazi_Germany + 50.00% Icelandic
    0.01771909	50.00% Irish + 50.00% Italian_Campania
    0.01819113	50.00% Shetlandic + 50.00% Sicilian_East
    0.01820278	50.00% Dutch + 50.00% Italian_Apulia
    0.01865686	50.00% Ashkenazi_Poland + 50.00% Orcadian
    0.01884121	53.00% Greek_Laconia + 47.00% Scottish
    0.01909771	50.00% Ashkenazi_Lithuania + 50.00% Orcadian
    0.01920621	52.00% Irish + 48.00% Italian_Calabria
    0.01921001	47.00% Italian_Calabria + 53.00% Scottish
    0.01933118	50.00% French_Brittany + 50.00% Italian_Abruzzo
    0.01963248	56.00% Icelandic + 44.00% Romaniote_Jew
    However I also get many fits which look like this instead:

    Code:
    0.01691836	68.80% English_Cornwall + 31.20% Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.01697149	72.60% French_Brittany + 27.40% Samaritan
    0.01731873	70.00% French_Brittany + 30.00% Lebanese_Christian
    0.01750708	71.00% French_Brittany + 29.00% Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.01776598	67.80% English_Cornwall + 32.20% Lebanese_Christian
    0.01815937	30.80% Palestinian_Beit_Sahour + 69.20% Welsh
    0.01821872	31.80% Lebanese_Christian + 68.20% Welsh
    0.01845380	68.20% English_Cornwall + 31.80% Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
    0.01849870	29.00% Samaritan + 71.00% Welsh
    0.01854406	70.60% English_Cornwall + 29.40% Samaritan
    0.01857833	31.20% Samaritan + 68.80% Shetlandic
    0.01865032	68.60% English + 31.40% Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.01883458	32.80% Palestinian_Beit_Sahour + 67.20% Shetlandic
    Both 50% East Med + 50% NW Euro and ~66% NW Euro + ~33% Levantine can work, but only one of those models embodies reality. This dilemma is inherently similar to the one you're bringing up.

    Again, a brute mixture of Levantine and say North-Central European (French & German) components does nothing to explain Ashkenazi ancestry. The common source Western Jews derive from is going to be Romaniote-like, notice how Romaniotes are in a central position among Western Jewish groups and how the position of other Western Jewish groups can be interpreted as a pull towards their respective host populations:



    As opposed to radiation from a single Levantine source here, not for Western Jews. However we will probably be able to visualise this once we can compare Judeans to the Western Jewish source and the Mizrahi Jewish source (possibly Babylonian Jewish). Also, if Ashkenazim were anywhere close to owing +30% of their ancestry to North-Central Europeans, we'd expect to see a lot more hints pointing in that direction, that is to say more Y-Chromosomal and mtDNA clades shared exclusively with French and Germans, more IBD sharing with such populations and so on and so forth, and we're not exactly seeing that beyond a few select cases.
    That’s an Interesting new phrase..

    “a brute mixture”

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  10. #10597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    By all the arguments I heard, its is very likely the Greco-Roman contribution was stronger than the Western-Central European, but the exact estimates are hard to make. I would say the best we can hope for is to find actual Medieval Jewish remains and get them tested. Because the French and German admixture in particular could in some of them be pretty recent and would show when it happened and how the pre-admixture Jewish ancestors of the main groups from the Rhineland and Bohemia looked like.
    Regarding Greco Roman component..
    We know that on average Imperial Roman era Central Italians plotted (On average) like modern Southern Italians.
    Comparatively we have absolutely no idea what Imperial Roman Italians of actual Greco Southern Italy plotted like?
    Perhaps there average was Closer to Cypriots? Was Berber Punic admixture more prominent?
    Also who knows what’s interesting Y & MtDNA there Remains could be hiding?
    Last edited by Claudio; 02-11-2021 at 06:52 PM.

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  12. #10598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudio View Post
    How Levantine do you propose Romaniotes to be?
    They are about 3/4 Middle Eastern and 1/4 Southern European

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  14. #10599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudio View Post
    Ajeje.
    What do you score on Gedmatch Eurogenes K13 (should be able to tell from your East med,West Asian, & Red Sea component scores if you are closer to Your average Lazio,Abruzzo Italian over your average Calabrian & Sicilian no?
    Bro, it's all so damn subjective.... Now according to Eurogenes K13 I would be Sicilian, and R437's twin separated at birth XD

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 30.06
    2 West_Med 24.33
    3 North_Atlantic 19.47
    4 West_Asian 14.2
    5 Red_Sea 5.79
    6 Baltic 4.01
    7 Northeast_African 1.29
    8 East_Asian 0.84

    Modern pops
    Code:
    Distance to:	Ajeje_Brazorf
    4.63922407	Sicily
    5.13116946	IT_Campania
    5.37513721	IT_Apulia
    5.65003540	IT_Molise
    5.80400724	IT_Basilicata
    5.91016920	Malta
    5.97796788	IT_Calabria
    6.03389592	IT_Abruzzo
    7.60800894	Greek_Cyclades
    8.14547727	Greek_North_Aegean
    8.53789201	Greek_Symi_Island
    9.10001099	Greek_Ionia
    9.46277443	Greek_Andros_Island
    9.92575942	Moroccan_Jew
    9.97638211	Sephardic_Jewish
    10.05145263	IT_Marche
    10.05449651	IT_Lazio
    10.14113406	Greek_Athens
    10.14996552	Greek_Crete
    10.15135951	Greek_Dodecanese
    10.52771105	Italian_Jewish
    10.87121888	Greek_Chios
    10.97932147	Greek_Central
    11.05241150	Algerian_Jewish
    11.06187597	IT_Umbria
    Ancient pops
    Code:
    Distance to:	Ajeje_Brazorf
    2.75018181	R52_Lazio_Rome_Late_Medieval_Italy
    3.35927075	R131_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
    3.68009511	R437b_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Republic
    4.10945252	R973_Lazio_Rome_Renaissance_Italy
    4.64929027	R59_Lazio_Rome_Early_Medieval_Italy
    4.70826932	R47_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
    4.70880027	R117_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Late_Antiquity
    5.26858615	R35_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Late_Antiquity
    5.72717208	R65_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
    5.84194317	R58_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
    5.85465627	R54_Lazio_Rome_Late_Medieval_Italy
    5.87860528	R122_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Late_Antiquity
    5.88742728	SZ40_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp
    5.90741906	R835_Marche_Roman_Imperial
    6.06635805	R64_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
    6.28775795	R56_Lazio_Rome_Late_Medieval_Italy
    6.61176225	R1290_Lazio_Rome_Medieval_Italy
    6.74140193	R49_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
    6.77397963	R30_Lazio_Rome_Early_Medieval_Italy
    7.07773269	R1544_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
    7.11416896	R436_Lazio_Rome_Roman_Imperial
    7.16727284	R107_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Late_Antiquity
    7.26108119	R136_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Late_Antiquity
    7.33366893	R836_Marche_Roman_Imperial
    7.44206960	R32_Lazio_Rome_Early_Medieval_Italy
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudio View Post
    How Levantine do you propose Romaniotes to be?
    Going from memory, this should be the case:

    Romaniote Jews: 47%
    Italian Jews: 40%
    Sephardic Jews: 37%
    Ashkenazi Jews: 34%

    I should have about 21%, but my Levantine branch most likely came from what is now Syria so using other criteria the percentage might even be higher.
    [1] "distance%=2.9299"

    Ajeje Brazorf

    EEF,51.4
    BALTIC_BA,12.6
    GANJ_DAREH,10.8
    CHG,10.4
    MIDDLE_EAST,10
    ANE,2.4
    TAFORALT,1.8
    WHG,0.6

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  16. #10600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    This is also visible on most PCAs (including those I posted), South Italians (especially Campanians, Basilicatans, Calabrians, East Sicilians and Apulians) will appear extremely close to Ashkenazi Jews in most dimensions, which contrasts with most fits where Ashkenazim will comparatively more elevated Near Eastern ancestry. As altvred said, this really has more to do with G25 values being PCA coordinates than anything else (hence why this is reflected on PCA plots).




    Using the 2-Way Mixed Mode on Vahaduo, I get fits like this:

    Code:
    0.01402985	46.00% Italian_Jew + 54.00% Norwegian
    0.01523673	49.20% Maltese + 50.80% Shetlandic
    0.01569539	49.60% Italian_Campania + 50.40% Shetlandic
    0.01630497	55.00% Danish + 45.00% Italian_Jew
    0.01639827	49.00% Ashkenazi_Belarussia + 51.00% English_Cornwall
    0.01640068	51.00% Ashkenazi_Belarussia + 49.00% Shetlandic
    0.01648837	49.20% Ashkenazi_Russia + 50.80% English_Cornwall
    0.01652830	50.00% Ashkenazi_Lithuania + 50.00% Shetlandic
    0.01697739	51.00% Italian_Basilicata + 49.00% Shetlandic
    0.01730022	49.40% Ashkenazi_Poland + 50.60% Scottish
    0.01762202	50.00% Ashkenazi_Germany + 50.00% Icelandic
    0.01771909	50.00% Irish + 50.00% Italian_Campania
    0.01819113	50.00% Shetlandic + 50.00% Sicilian_East
    0.01820278	50.00% Dutch + 50.00% Italian_Apulia
    0.01865686	50.00% Ashkenazi_Poland + 50.00% Orcadian
    0.01884121	53.00% Greek_Laconia + 47.00% Scottish
    0.01909771	50.00% Ashkenazi_Lithuania + 50.00% Orcadian
    0.01920621	52.00% Irish + 48.00% Italian_Calabria
    0.01921001	47.00% Italian_Calabria + 53.00% Scottish
    0.01933118	50.00% French_Brittany + 50.00% Italian_Abruzzo
    0.01963248	56.00% Icelandic + 44.00% Romaniote_Jew
    However I also get many fits which look like this instead:

    Code:
    0.01691836	68.80% English_Cornwall + 31.20% Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.01697149	72.60% French_Brittany + 27.40% Samaritan
    0.01731873	70.00% French_Brittany + 30.00% Lebanese_Christian
    0.01750708	71.00% French_Brittany + 29.00% Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.01776598	67.80% English_Cornwall + 32.20% Lebanese_Christian
    0.01815937	30.80% Palestinian_Beit_Sahour + 69.20% Welsh
    0.01821872	31.80% Lebanese_Christian + 68.20% Welsh
    0.01845380	68.20% English_Cornwall + 31.80% Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
    0.01849870	29.00% Samaritan + 71.00% Welsh
    0.01854406	70.60% English_Cornwall + 29.40% Samaritan
    0.01857833	31.20% Samaritan + 68.80% Shetlandic
    0.01865032	68.60% English + 31.40% Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
    0.01883458	32.80% Palestinian_Beit_Sahour + 67.20% Shetlandic
    Both 50% East Med + 50% NW Euro and ~66% NW Euro + ~33% Levantine can work, but only one of those models embodies reality. This dilemma is inherently similar to the one you're bringing up.

    Again, a brute mixture of Levantine and say North-Central European (French & German) components does nothing to explain Ashkenazi ancestry. The common source Western Jews derive from is going to be Romaniote-like, notice how Romaniotes are in a central position among Western Jewish groups and how the position of other Western Jewish groups can be interpreted as a pull towards their respective host populations:



    As opposed to radiation from a single Levantine source here, not for Western Jews. However we will probably be able to visualise this once we can compare Judeans to the Western Jewish source and the Mizrahi Jewish source (possibly Babylonian Jewish). Also, if Ashkenazim were anywhere close to owing +30% of their ancestry to North-Central Europeans, we'd expect to see a lot more hints pointing in that direction, that is to say more Y-Chromosomal and mtDNA clades shared exclusively with French and Germans, more IBD sharing with such populations and so on and so forth, and we're not exactly seeing that beyond a few select cases.
    Delete
    Last edited by SUPREEEEEME; 02-15-2021 at 08:03 PM.
    Other Y-DNA:

    Maternal 6X Great Grandfather J1-ZS10441

    Target: SUPREEEEEME_scaled
    Distance: 2.4552% / 0.02455222
    34.4 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
    19.2 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
    13.6 GRC_Helladic_MBA
    9.2 DEU_MA
    8.4 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
    7.8 EGY_Hellenistic
    6.0 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
    1.4 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SUPREEEEEME For This Useful Post:

     Ryu&Ken (02-15-2021),  Targum (02-16-2021)

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