Page 62 of 1054 FirstFirst ... 1252606162636472112162562 ... LastLast
Results 611 to 620 of 10537

Thread: Could Western Jews (Ash. and Seph.) descend from Aegeans and Levantine admixture?

  1. #611
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,456
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Ashkenazi Jew
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-YP3924
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a1b1a
    mtDNA (P)
    K2a2a

    Israel Israel Jerusalem Star of David
    Quote Originally Posted by Targum View Post
    SyJ #7 and SyJ #8 would seem to have Ashkenazi ancestors, based on the Oracle matches of Balkan and E Euro


    I've just checked again, comparing Cypriots' oracles to Syrian Jews' oracles - all of them, including even other fully Levantine populations like Druze etc., have as you go down the list of the oracle mixed mode matches, some weird exotic combinations, so this doesn't mean they actually have those. Some of them had Kosovars or Papuans or Malay admixture, but it's not in the top three nor are these populations appear in single mode, for example, check out one of the Cypriots:

     

    MDLP World-22 Oracle results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West-Asian 31.53
    2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 30.81
    3 Near_East 25.92
    4 North-East-European 9.64
    5 Sub-Saharian 0.76
    6 Indo-Tibetan 0.6
    7 South-America_Amerind 0.55
    8 Pygmy 0.08
    9 Melanesian 0.07
    10 South-African 0.05

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Jew_Syria (derived) 5.6
    2 Cypriot (derived) 6.17
    3 Greek_Cretan (derived) 7.21
    4 Jew_Italia (derived) 9.95
    5 Jew_Tunisia (derived) 10.17
    6 Jew_Morocco (derived) 10.44
    7 Lebanese (derived) 10.45
    8 Sephardim (derived) 10.62
    9 Jew_Algeria (derived) 10.95
    10 Jew_Francestrale (derived) 10.97
    11 Druze (derived) 11.6
    12 Jew_Libya (derived) 12.26
    13 Ashkenazim (derived) 12.95
    14 Greek_Azov (derived) 13.2
    15 Syrian (derived) 13.37
    16 Sicilian (derived) 13.82
    17 Turk (derived) 14.39
    18 Jew_Romania (derived) 14.56
    19 Greek_East (derived) 15.03
    20 Jew_Georgia (derived) 15.07

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 56.5% Druze (derived) + 43.5% Greek_East (derived) @ 1.07
    2 59.4% Druze (derived) + 40.6% Greek_Center (derived) @ 1.13
    3 62% Greek_Cretan (derived) + 38% Druze (derived) @ 1.44
    4 59.4% Sicilian (derived) + 40.6% Jew-Iran (derived) @ 1.51
    5 59% Druze (derived) + 41% Italian-Center (derived) @ 1.53
    6 56.8% Sicilian (derived) + 43.2% Jew-Iraqi (derived) @ 1.55
    7 70.8% Druze (derived) + 29.2% Italian-North (derived) @ 1.61
    8 72.1% Druze (derived) + 27.9% Kosovar (derived) @ 1.66
    9 59.5% Greek_Cretan (derived) + 40.5% Lebanese (derived) @ 1.72
    10 71.3% Jew_Georgia (derived) + 28.7% Iberian (derived) @ 1.72
    11 93.9% Cypriot (derived) + 6.1% North-East-European (ancestral) @ 1.76
    12 66.6% Jew_Georgia (derived) + 33.4% Corsican (derived) @ 1.76
    13 75.5% Druze (derived) + 24.5% Provancestralal (derived) @ 1.79
    14 74.4% Druze (derived) + 25.6% Italian_North (derived) @ 1.81
    15 62.5% Jew-Iraqi (derived) + 37.5% Corsican (derived) @ 1.9
    16 52.2% Sicilian (derived) + 47.8% Jew_Georgia (derived) @ 1.91
    17 71.3% Jew_Syria (derived) + 28.7% Greek_Azov (derived) @ 1.96
    18 65.6% Greek_Cretan (derived) + 34.4% Syrian (derived) @ 1.97
    19 70% Jew_Georgia (derived) + 30% Portugese (derived) @ 1.97
    20 50.6% Jew_Georgia (derived) + 49.4% Italian-South (derived) @ 2.02



    And a Christian Lebanese (which doesn't cluster outside of the Levant):

     


    MDLP World-22 Oracle results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 West-Asian 35.02
    2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 25.65
    3 Near_East 24.37
    4 North-East-European 7.28
    5 Sub-Saharian 2.74
    6 East-Siberean 1.74
    7 Austronesian 0.97
    8 Indo-Iranian 0.9
    9 Indian 0.59
    10 Arctic-Amerind 0.43
    11 Pygmy 0.23
    12 South-African 0.09

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Lebanese (derived) 7.47
    2 Jew_Syria (derived) 8.15
    3 Syrian (derived) 9.34
    4 Druze (derived) 9.35
    5 Cypriot (derived) 9.57
    6 Turk (derived) 9.74
    7 Iraqi (derived) 10.52
    8 Jew_Georgia (derived) 11.29
    9 Greek_Cretan (derived) 12.47
    10 Greek_Azov (derived) 13.4
    11 Jew-Uzbekistan (derived) 13.66
    12 Jew_Iraqi (derived) 13.66
    13 Jew_Azerbaijan (derived) 13.87
    14 Jew-Iraqi (derived) 13.92
    15 Jew_Kurd (derived) 14.71
    16 Jew_Tunisia (derived) 14.78
    17 Jew_Tat (derived) 14.92
    18 Jew_Morocco (derived) 15.31
    19 Armenian (derived) 15.37
    20 Jordanian (derived) 15.45

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 54.4% Iraqi (derived) + 45.6% Greek_Cretan (derived) @ 2.43
    2 65.6% Iraqi (derived) + 34.4% Greek_East (derived) @ 2.6
    3 65.3% Lebanese (derived) + 34.7% Greek_Azov (derived) @ 2.61
    4 67.9% Iraqi (derived) + 32.1% Italian-Center (derived) @ 2.69
    5 67.6% Iraqi (derived) + 32.4% Greek_Center (derived) @ 2.71
    6 53.3% Jew_Tunisia (derived) + 46.7% Azeri (derived) @ 2.76
    7 77.1% Iraqi (derived) + 22.9% Kosovar (derived) @ 2.82
    8 66.9% Iraqi (derived) + 33.1% Italian-South (derived) @ 2.85
    9 52.4% Jew_Morocco (derived) + 47.6% Azeri (derived) @ 2.86
    10 59.6% Syrian (derived) + 40.4% Greek_Azov (derived) @ 2.94
    11 51% Jew_Libya (derived) + 49% Azeri (derived) @ 3
    12 52.9% Jew_Morocco (derived) + 47.1% Kurd (derived) @ 3.06
    13 63.2% Turk (derived) + 36.8% Jew_Libya (derived) @ 3.11
    14 76.4% Iraqi (derived) + 23.6% Italian-North (derived) @ 3.19
    15 74.5% Jew_Syria (derived) + 25.5% Kumyk (derived) @ 3.21
    16 65.5% Iraqi (derived) + 34.5% Sicilian (derived) @ 3.22
    17 68.5% Druze (derived) + 31.5% Tatar_Crim (derived) @ 3.22
    18 77.7% Iraqi (derived) + 22.3% Corsican (derived) @ 3.26
    19 74% Lebanese (derived) + 26% Tatar_Crim (derived) @ 3.3
    20 61.1% Turk (derived) + 38.9% Jew_Tunisia (derived) @ 3.35

    Last edited by Erikl86; 06-20-2018 at 10:32 AM.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Erikl86 For This Useful Post:

     Andrewid (06-20-2018)

  3. #612
    Banned
    Posts
    4,342
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a1a
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Iraqi Arabs are not good candidates for that, they are too Mesopotamian and not enough Levantine to model something like that. You should use Jordanians - they are Levantines heavily admixed with Arabs. Even some Sunni Syrians might do, but Jordanians will work best for that.

    Here's the K36 for a Sunni Jordanian:





    This person is close (for MENA standards) to all of the South Italian, Sicilian, Maltese, and Aegean islands samples but again the Cyclades has the lowest affinity of all of them, closer to what Peloponnese gets. It's interesting to see this happen as a pattern but I do think it has to do with either the recorded Arvanite/Albanian settlements in the Cyclades or simply, greater proximity to mainland Greece. The best equivalent of this in southern Italy would be Apulia, which for that Jordanian has a similar decreased affinity.

    It is also interesting because people often claim Jordanians are, in their entirety, transplanted Arabians but they are clearly intermediate.

    Yes, this is also why Tunisian Jews cluster much closer to the Levant, despite having mixed with the local North African population to a similar degree as Libyan Jews have. Tunisians were heavily settled by Phoenicians and Punic was spoken in some places as late as the 4th century AD.
    That explains the higher similarity to the Levant than what other North Africans get (and part of it might also be, they have less Sub-Saharan input than Moroccans, Algerians and even Egyptians), and I would then say the particular Malta/West Sicily affinity is due to migration from Tunisia to those places in particular.

    I want to see what Libyans get. My best guess is they would be closer to Egyptians. I do not think they would come out like Moroccans and Algerians because they're on the opposite side of Tunisia and if I remember correctly from a study, they were closer or intermediate between Maghrebis and Egyptians.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sikeliot For This Useful Post:

     Claudio (06-20-2018),  Erikl86 (06-20-2018)

  5. #613
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,456
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Ashkenazi Jew
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-YP3924
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a1b1a
    mtDNA (P)
    K2a2a

    Israel Israel Jerusalem Star of David
    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post

    It is also interesting because people often claim Jordanians are, in their entirety, transplanted Arabians but they are clearly intermediate.
    70% of the Jordanians are from the West Bank originally. Only about 30% are from where is now Jordan, and only a minority among them are Arab Bedouins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post

    I want to see what Libyans get. My best guess is they would be closer to Egyptians. I do not think they would come out like Moroccans and Algerians because they're on the opposite side of Tunisia and if I remember correctly from a study, they were closer or intermediate between Maghrebis and Egyptians.
    Libyans should get closer to Berbers and completely different from Egyptians. Egyptians are unique among North Africans.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Erikl86 For This Useful Post:

     Claudio (06-20-2018),  jonahst (06-20-2018)

  7. #614
    Registered Users
    Posts
    572
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    I would really love to see how full Romaniote Jew would cluster, or even Egyptian Karaite (or Egyptian Jew).
    I think Egypt's Jewish population between the 19th and 20th century got ten times bigger from predominantly Jewish emigrees from Turkey, Syria, Greece, Iraq and to a lesser extent Ashenazim and Italy. Aside from Karaites, most Egyptian Jews are very recently descended from communities outside. This sets them apart from other more isolated North African Jews like the Djerban Jews in Tunisia. I technically am 1/4 Egyptian Jewish but identify as Sephardic from Turkey (prior ancestral homeland) regardless that my grandfather spoke classical Arabic fluently. Wouldn't surprise me if > 90% of Alexandria's Jews had other origins outside Egypt. Cairo had a considerable community of Mustarabim. There are probably less then 100 reported Jews in Egypt today.

    An Egyptian Jewish relative on 23andme I share with looks maybe Mustarabim influenced. I will compare his/her results to another Syrian Jew (not a relative) I share with.

    Egyptian Jew

    Western Asian & North African 53.2%
    Western Asian 32.7%
    North African & Arabian 14.7% Tunisia
    Broadly Western Asian & North African 5.8%
    European 46.3%
    Italian 15.7%
    Ashkenazi Jewish 9.9%
    Iberian 0.2%
    Eastern European 0.2%
    Broadly Southern European 11.5%
    Broadly European 9.0%
    Unassigned 0.5%

    Syrian Jew

    Western Asian & North African 65.5%
    Western Asian 50.7% Iraq
    North African & Arabian 11.0% Morocco
    Broadly Western Asian & North African 3.8%
    European 33.8%
    Ashkenazi Jewish 11.4%
    Italian 7.6%
    Iberian 0.4%
    Broadly Southern European 5.0%
    Broadly Northwestern European 0.1%
    Broadly European 9.3%
    Sub-Saharan African 0.2%
    West African 0.2%
    Unassigned 0.5%

    Below is a Jewish relative from the island Rhodes, Greece. Below is what the account manager says in the profile:

    This relative is Sephardic / Mizra hi / Romaniote Jewish. Almost all of her family came from the island of Rhodes, which is the Aegean Sea, off the coast of Turkey. Rhodes was part of the Ottoman Empire for centuries, then was Italian between WWI and WWII, and is now Greek.
    A small number of Romaniote (native Greek-Jewish) people lived on the island since ancient times, but their numbers were dwarfed by the influx of Sephardic (Spanish-Jewish, Portuguese-Jewish, and Sicilian-Jewish) refugees who settled on the island after 1391.
    This relative also had some ancestors, mostly women, who lived in towns on the southern coast of Turkey, and from Israel, who moved to Rhodes later on. They would probably be classified as Mizrahi (native Middle Eastern Jewish).
    Surnames in this tree have a mix of Spanish, Italian, Arabic, and Israeli roots.
    Greek Jew

    European 65.9%
    Ashkenazi Jewish 20.6%
    Italian 19.4%
    Balkan 0.3%
    Broadly Southern European 9.5%
    Broadly Northwestern European 0.2%
    Broadly European 15.9%
    Western Asian & North African 32.7%
    Western Asian 23.2%
    North African & Arabian 7.1% Morocco
    Broadly Western Asian & North African 2.4%
    East Asian & Native American 0.1%
    Native American 0.1%
    Unassigned 1.3%

    Another Jewish relative from Greece. Appears to be from very Sephardic heavy towns (before the holocaust) in Greece.

    Greek Jew

    European 62.1%
    Southern European 35.9%
    Italian 25.6%
    Iberian 0.6%
    Sardinian 0.9%
    Broadly Southern European 8.9%
    Ashkenazi Jewish 14.5%
    Eastern European 2.1%
    Broadly European 9.5%
    Middle Eastern & North African 36.9%
    Middle Eastern 9.0%
    North African 15.8%
    Broadly Middle Eastern & North African 2.1%
    Sub-Saharan African 0.2%
    East African 0.2%
    Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.0%
    Unassigned 0.9%

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Seabass For This Useful Post:

     Claudio (06-20-2018),  coffeeprince (06-20-2018),  Erikl86 (06-20-2018),  jonahst (06-20-2018),  Targum (06-20-2018)

  9. #615
    I would love to get a clear answer to this:what is the percentage of actual jewish ancestry in mizrahi jews(iraqi and iranian jews) and ashkenazi jews?
    some mizrahi jews look extremely ashkenazi.

  10. #616
    Registered Users
    Posts
    259
    Sex

    Italy Sicily Greece Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by wussel restbrook View Post
    I would love to get a clear answer to this:what is the percentage of actual jewish ancestry in mizrahi jews(iraqi and iranian jews) and ashkenazi jews?
    some mizrahi jews look extremely ashkenazi.
    Both groups are 100% Jewish since being Jewish is not just a genetic but cultural and religion based heritage.

  11. #617
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,456
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Ashkenazi Jew
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-YP3924
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a1b1a
    mtDNA (P)
    K2a2a

    Israel Israel Jerusalem Star of David
    Quote Originally Posted by wussel restbrook View Post
    I would love to get a clear answer to this:what is the percentage of actual jewish ancestry in mizrahi jews(iraqi and iranian jews) and ashkenazi jews?
    some mizrahi jews look extremely ashkenazi.
    If he's fully Jewish, then 100%

  12. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    If he's fully Jewish, then 100%
    Im not talking about religion, What im asking is what is the percentage of Levantine in ashkenazi and mizrahi jews.

  13. #619
    Registered Users
    Posts
    259
    Sex

    Italy Sicily Greece Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by wussel restbrook View Post
    Im not talking about religion, What im asking is what is the percentage of Levantine in ashkenazi and mizrahi jews.
    Ashkenazi Jews ~40-60%
    Mizrahi Jews (depends on the group) Yemeni Jews for example are technically fully Arabian stock, while Syrian Jews are probably close to entirely Levantine genetically.

  14. #620
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,456
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Ashkenazi Jew
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-YP3924
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a1b1a
    mtDNA (P)
    K2a2a

    Israel Israel Jerusalem Star of David
    Quote Originally Posted by giorgio View Post
    Ashkenazi Jews ~40-60%
    Mizrahi Jews (depends on the group) Yemeni Jews for example are technically fully Arabian stock, while Syrian Jews are probably close to entirely Levantine genetically.
    Depends on what you define Levantine. Syrian Jews cluster the same as Cypriots. Cypriots are ~35% Levantine, ~65% Greek-derived.

    Logic dictates, that being that Syrian Jews constantly cluster with Cypriots and not other groups, that they're the same.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Erikl86 For This Useful Post:

     Claudio (06-21-2018),  kingjohn (06-20-2018)

Page 62 of 1054 FirstFirst ... 1252606162636472112162562 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 20
    Last Post: 09-18-2020, 09:29 PM
  2. Do Mandaens descend from Jews?
    By StillWater in forum Jewish
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-07-2020, 04:38 AM
  3. Late Gupta era admixture in Western India
    By tipirneni in forum Southern
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: 10-24-2019, 03:16 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-29-2019, 04:04 AM
  5. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 08-04-2019, 05:01 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •