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Thread: In Uttar Pradesh, 4,000-Year-Old Chariots And Coffins Found

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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    Austro Asiatic, you mean Munda? Im assuming ASI must have been there too
    Yes, Munda. There was no pure AASI in the Iron Age.

    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, what you are saying there was no Dravidian movement into the Gangetic plains, like in South India. Indo Aryan replaced Austro-Asiatic languages.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malto_language

    How did Malto reach Bihar and Bengal? through central India?
    The Kurukh-Malto have a tradition of recent migration from around the Deccan, but I'd posit that they lived in the hills of Odisha bordering the Deccan. Their exonym given by the neighbouring Munda people(s) is 'Oraon', meaning 'to roam'. Also modern distribution of Kurukh-Malto is more North-eastern than even two hundred years ago. These people moved to Bengal proper during British rule from the region's vicinity. This is also true for certain Austro-Asiatic groups like Santhals who did not have a presence in the plains until 300 years ago. The British primarily encouraged migration of aboriginal tribes for work in tea gardens and other farms that locals were not accustomed to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    Yes, Munda. There was no pure AASI in the Iron Age.



    The Kurukh-Malto have a tradition of recent migration from around the Deccan, but I'd posit that they lived in the hills of Odisha bordering the Deccan. Their exonym given by the neighbouring Munda people(s) is 'Oraon', meaning 'to roam'. Also modern distribution of Kurukh-Malto is more North-eastern than even two hundred years ago. These people moved to Bengal proper during British rule from the region's vicinity. This is also true for certain Austro-Asiatic groups like Santhals who did not have a presence in the plains until 300 years ago. The British primarily encouraged migration of aboriginal tribes for work in tea gardens and other farms that locals were not accustomed to.
    If we consider movement of Dravidians from (North)West to (South)/East, that would likely make Brahui, as the oldest language of the group and Kurukh - Malto among the youngest. How are both classified under North Dravidian languages?

    Some authors deny that North Dravidian forms a valid subgroup, splitting it into Northeast (Kurukh–Malto) and Northwest (Brahui).[31]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravid...vidian_pockets

    Even if some others deny and classify as Northeast and Northwest, it is still likley they more close to one another than to nieghbouring centrel dravidians. or there more to these classifications.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    According to a theory the Chariot evolved from wagon like wheels to become more bigger spoken wheel during Egypt/Hurrian/Mittani era and then spread. The earlier Sumerian/Akkad were wooden wheel which had limited mobility while maneuvering curves etc..
    Chariots quite clearly developed on the steppes in the Potapovka-Sintashta cultural zone. Two wheeled, horse drawn wagons you can only stand on with spoked wheels are what I call a chariot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperAxe View Post
    Chariots quite clearly developed on the steppes in the Potapovka-Sintashta cultural zone. Two wheeled, horse drawn wagons you can only stand on with spoked wheels are what I call a chariot.
    I thought Ancient Egyptians also had chariots? during Moses time

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    Quote Originally Posted by akash View Post
    I thought Ancient Egyptians also had chariots? during Moses time
    The chariot came to Egypt through the Hyksos around 1250 BC.And the Hyksos were in contact with the Hittites and they know from Mitanni
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    But I also have to add that the origin of the chariot is the Sintashta culture and was mediated by Central Asia through the migration of Mitanni in the Near East and at the end of the Bronze Age became an outdated model of military history and only in the Iron Age among the Persians and the Celts in Britain use came.
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    Sorry and almost forgotten, the chariot came to use an example of King Poros in India
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    Quote Originally Posted by discreetmaverick View Post
    If we consider movement of Dravidians from (North)West to (South)/East, that would likely make Brahui, as the oldest language of the group and Kurukh - Malto among the youngest. How are both classified under North Dravidian languages?



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravid...vidian_pockets

    Even if some others deny and classify as Northeast and Northwest, it is still likley they more close to one another than to nieghbouring centrel dravidians. or there more to these classifications.
    I have read that the grouping is seen as controversial. There were even some proposals that Brahui represents an extinct independent branch of Dravidian (which is very likely IMO). After the Narasimhan paper, the theory is that the development of Indo-Aryan and (South Indian) Dravidian languages took hold in a similar time period (likely a few centuries apart) from the IVC due to migrations. Even though the Brahui have some oral history of migration, genetics is showing that they're likely native to the area. I think a current North Dravidian cluster is more based on geography rather than phylogeny. Research on Dravidian languages outside of the major ones are poor. Apparently there is some kurukh-malto substrate in Konkani/Marathi, and they're hypothesized to migrate from there. The distance looks a bit too unlikely for me though, but I don't have any knowledge of the kurukh-malto languages themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulin View Post
    I have read that the grouping is seen as controversial. There were even some proposals that Brahui represents an extinct independent branch of Dravidian (which is very likely IMO). After the Narasimhan paper, the theory is that the development of Indo-Aryan and (South Indian) Dravidian languages took hold in a similar time period (likely a few centuries apart) from the IVC due to migrations. Even though the Brahui have some oral history of migration, genetics is showing that they're likely native to the area. I think a current North Dravidian cluster is more based on geography rather than phylogeny. Research on Dravidian languages outside of the major ones are poor. Apparently there is some kurukh-malto substrate in Konkani/Marathi, and they're hypothesized to migrate from there. The distance looks a bit too unlikely for me though, but I don't have any knowledge of the kurukh-malto languages themselves.
    What about links between the Brahui and the IVC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    What about links between the Brahui and the IVC?
    If Brahui had links to the IVC then it would have interacted with Indo-Iranian, Vedic, Gathic, Old Persian, Pali etc., and thus shown some remnants of those interactions.
    But its interaction seems to be only with relatively modern Indic - Jatki, Sindhi, etc. and with (theoretically W. Iranian) Balochi.

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