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Thread: How much of my English ancestry is Celtic Briton?

  1. #441
    Registered Users
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    1,643
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    Canada
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    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-FTA53697

    Canada Netherlands United Kingdom Cornwall Ireland France
    Leslie et al had some questionable conclusions, especially regarding Anglo-Saxon & Danish Viking ancestry within the Isles, https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...63/core-reader

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...EAEC826BEDBC63

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to spruithean For This Useful Post:

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  3. #442
    Registered Users
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    211
    Sex
    Location
    Southeast U.S.
    Ethnicity
    British Isles/Germanic
    Nationality
    United States
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-DF13, Z251

    United States Grand Union
    This article says that at it's lowest amounts, pre-invasion ancestry would make up 60% of the DNA of a modern individual whose great-grandparents were all born in the British Isles before 1885. https://www.newscientist.com/article...t-not-its-dna/

    Somewhere I remember reading a more detailed breakdown that put Ireland at 85% or so, and the rest at 75% average, but I cannot remember where I found it and have not found it again. Does anyone know what this source was and how credible it is?

  4. #443
    Registered Users
    Posts
    577
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    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    English/Irish
    aDNA Match (1st)
    England_Mid-Late Iron Age:I20623
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    Norway_Mid_MA:VK117
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    England_Iron Age:I0160
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-M222
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a10
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-U106
    mtDNA (P)
    H1bz

    Australia Mercia Ireland Leinster
    Quote Originally Posted by Milton1997 View Post
    This article says that at it's lowest amounts, pre-invasion ancestry would make up 60% of the DNA of a modern individual whose great-grandparents were all born in the British Isles before 1885. https://www.newscientist.com/article...t-not-its-dna/

    Somewhere I remember reading a more detailed breakdown that put Ireland at 85% or so, and the rest at 75% average, but I cannot remember where I found it and have not found it again. Does anyone know what this source was and how credible it is?
    From the hundreds of multigenerational British Isles and continental NW Euro gedmatch kits I've collected, I'm increasingly confident that contrary to popular belief, Celtic Briton ancestry is a minority in average modern English - at least those without recent Welsh or Scottish ancestry. The English kits are closer to the Dutch kits on average than to the Welsh kits, with solid sample numbers for each.

    K36 comparisons
    Code:
    Distance to:	English(n=275)
    3.56942572	Scottish(n=63)
    3.66148877	Dutch(n=102)
    3.98626391	Welsh(n=42)
    4.00246174	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    4.70981953	Dutch_South(n=19)
    5.30133945	Cornish(n=13)
    5.42056270	French_Brittany(n=21)
    5.74687741	Irish(n=177)
    5.82995712	German_Northwest(n=21)
    5.97269621	French_Normandy(n=9)
    6.82741532	Flemish(n=21)
    7.74106582	Dutch_North(n=22)
    8.15680084	Icelandic(n=17)
    8.57523178	Danish(n=20+)
    11.06377422	Norwegian(n=20+)
    14.83577096	Swedish(n=20+)
    
    Distance to:	English_East(n=19)
    3.95597017	Dutch(n=102)
    4.05809068	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    4.53246070	Dutch_South(n=19)
    4.86226285	Scottish(n=63)
    5.13598092	Welsh(n=42)
    5.44915590	French_Normandy(n=9)
    5.66461826	French_Brittany(n=21)
    5.67476872	German_Northwest(n=21)
    6.53781309	Flemish(n=21)
    6.75772151	Cornish(n=13)
    6.86818753	Irish(n=177)
    8.38951131	Dutch_North(n=22)
    8.76897942	Icelandic(n=17)
    8.77253669	Danish(n=20+)
    11.09371444	Norwegian(n=20+)
    14.79079105	Swedish(n=20+)
    
    Distance to:	English_East-Midlands(n=29)
    3.88482947	Dutch(n=102)
    4.07633414	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    4.52243297	Dutch_South(n=19)
    4.55335041	Scottish(n=63)
    5.11266076	Welsh(n=42)
    5.58961537	German_Northwest(n=21)
    5.87126903	Cornish(n=13)
    6.06051153	Flemish(n=21)
    6.08620571	French_Normandy(n=9)
    6.21342900	French_Brittany(n=21)
    6.81914951	Irish(n=177)
    8.16992656	Dutch_North(n=22)
    8.93554699	Icelandic(n=17)
    9.00953939	Danish(n=20+)
    11.53894709	Norwegian(n=20+)
    15.38142061	Swedish(n=20+)
    
    Distance to:	English_Lancashire(n=33)
    3.45650112	Scottish(n=63)
    3.66274487	Welsh(n=42)
    3.99130305	Dutch(n=102)
    4.17028776	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    5.15697586	Dutch_South(n=19)
    5.35550184	Cornish(n=13)
    5.46902185	Irish(n=177)
    5.50042726	French_Brittany(n=21)
    6.29258294	German_Northwest(n=21)
    6.32252323	French_Normandy(n=9)
    7.63302037	Flemish(n=21)
    7.65270540	Dutch_North(n=22)
    7.75595255	Icelandic(n=17)
    8.34509437	Danish(n=20+)
    10.91986722	Norwegian(n=20+)
    14.68921033	Swedish(n=20+)
    
    Distance to:	English_Northeast(n=14)
    3.04447040	Scottish(n=63)
    3.49625514	Cornish(n=13)
    3.55503868	Welsh(n=42)
    4.86860350	Dutch(n=102)
    5.07306613	Irish(n=177)
    5.37150817	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    5.38519266	French_Brittany(n=21)
    5.41730560	Dutch_South(n=19)
    6.61632073	French_Normandy(n=9)
    6.90685167	German_Northwest(n=21)
    7.37526949	Flemish(n=21)
    8.31734934	Dutch_North(n=22)
    8.74870276	Icelandic(n=17)
    9.30922123	Danish(n=20+)
    11.95368981	Norwegian(n=20+)
    15.54506674	Swedish(n=20+)
    
    Distance to:	English_Southeast(n=70)
    3.53960450	Dutch(n=102)
    3.95957068	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    4.20752897	Scottish(n=63)
    4.36567291	Dutch_South(n=19)
    4.59936952	Welsh(n=42)
    5.58188140	French_Brittany(n=21)
    5.80543711	Cornish(n=13)
    5.82001718	French_Normandy(n=9)
    5.87590844	German_Northwest(n=21)
    6.31215494	Irish(n=177)
    6.45749952	Flemish(n=21)
    7.82286393	Dutch_North(n=22)
    8.14872383	Icelandic(n=17)
    8.48303601	Danish(n=20+)
    10.91173680	Norwegian(n=20+)
    14.58196832	Swedish(n=20+)
    
    Distance to:	English_Southwest(n=25)
    2.95546951	Welsh(n=42)
    3.42109632	Scottish(n=63)
    4.07297189	Cornish(n=13)
    4.34488205	French_Brittany(n=21)
    4.64358698	Irish(n=177)
    6.30669486	Dutch(n=102)
    6.37634692	French_Normandy(n=9)
    6.57019026	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    6.71598839	Dutch_South(n=19)
    8.09943825	German_Northwest(n=21)
    8.52749084	Flemish(n=21)
    9.52815302	Icelandic(n=17)
    9.53548111	Dutch_North(n=22)
    10.65213124	Danish(n=20+)
    12.83933020	Norwegian(n=20+)
    16.48312470	Swedish(n=20+)
    
    Distance to:	English_Yorkshire(n=28)
    3.36071421	Dutch(n=102)
    3.44881139	Scottish(n=63)
    3.70782955	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    3.98948618	Welsh(n=42)
    5.24727548	German_Northwest(n=21)
    5.46769604	Irish(n=177)
    5.58953486	Cornish(n=13)
    5.88502336	Dutch_South(n=19)
    6.43588378	Dutch_North(n=22)
    6.73905038	French_Brittany(n=21)
    6.86338838	Icelandic(n=17)
    7.43591286	French_Normandy(n=9)
    7.60013816	Danish(n=20+)
    7.97365036	Flemish(n=21)
    10.08379889	Norwegian(n=20+)
    14.09369363	Swedish(n=20+)
    
    Distance to:	English_West-Midlands(n=44)
    3.59528858	Dutch(n=102)
    3.61278286	Scottish(n=63)
    3.95202480	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    4.14254753	Welsh(n=42)
    4.64822547	Dutch_South(n=19)
    5.44132337	Cornish(n=13)
    5.49518880	French_Brittany(n=21)
    5.86300264	German_Northwest(n=21)
    5.92505696	French_Normandy(n=9)
    5.95699589	Irish(n=177)
    6.64021084	Flemish(n=21)
    7.86823360	Dutch_North(n=22)
    8.43677664	Icelandic(n=17)
    8.73813481	Danish(n=20+)
    11.21833767	Norwegian(n=20+)
    14.95121065	Swedish(n=20+)
    
    Target: English(n=275)
    Distance: 113.5960% / 1.13595973 | R3P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    53.2	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    26.4	French_Brittany(n=21)
    20.4	Cornish(n=13)
    
    Target: English_East(n=19)
    Distance: 182.5995% / 1.82599545 | R3P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    43.0	French_Brittany(n=21)
    35.0	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    22.0	German_Northwest(n=21)
    
    Target: English_East-Midlands(n=29)
    Distance: 175.8118% / 1.75811772 | R3P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    41.8	Welsh(n=42)
    35.6	Flemish(n=21)
    22.6	German_Northwest(n=21)
    
    Target: English_Lancashire(n=33)
    Distance: 148.2948% / 1.48294807 | R3P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    46.4	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    29.2	Welsh(n=42)
    24.4	French_Brittany(n=21)
    
    Target: English_Northeast(n=14)
    Distance: 103.9545% / 1.03954456 | R3P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    58.2	Cornish(n=13)
    28.8	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    13.0	Dutch_South(n=19)
    
    Target: English_Southeast(n=70)
    Distance: 156.3074% / 1.56307376 | R3P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    43.2	Welsh(n=42)
    29.4	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    27.4	Flemish(n=21)
    
    Target: English_Southwest(n=25)
    Distance: 203.1302% / 2.03130155 | R3P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    66.2	Welsh(n=42)
    20.6	French_Brittany(n=21)
    13.2	Flemish(n=21)
    
    Target: English_Yorkshire(n=28)
    Distance: 152.3568% / 1.52356772 | R3P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    49.0	Welsh(n=42)
    28.8	Dutch_North(n=22)
    22.2	Flemish(n=21)
    
    Target: English_West-Midlands(n=44)
    Distance: 111.4581% / 1.11458113 | R3P | ADC: 0.25x RC
    47.6	Welsh(n=42)
    27.2	Dutch_Central(n=43)
    25.2	Flemish(n=21)
    Code:
    Distance to:	English(n=275)
    0.00000000	English
    3.56942572	Scottish
    3.66148877	Dutch
    3.98626391	Welsh
    5.61359956	Afrikaner
    5.74687741	Irish
    6.80434420	Belgian
    6.82741532	Flemish
    8.15680084	Icelandic
    8.48761451	German
    
    Distance to:	English_East(n=19)
    1.96377188	English
    3.95597017	Dutch
    4.86226285	Scottish
    5.00842291	Afrikaner
    5.13598092	Welsh
    6.31910595	Belgian
    6.53781309	Flemish
    6.86818753	Irish
    7.81348834	German
    8.76897942	Icelandic
    
    Distance to:	English_East-Midlands(n=29)
    1.68011904	English
    3.88482947	Dutch
    4.55335041	Scottish
    5.11266076	Welsh
    5.32864898	Afrikaner
    6.04670985	Belgian
    6.06051153	Flemish
    6.81914951	Irish
    8.08419446	German
    8.93554699	Icelandic
    
    Distance to:	English_Lancashire(n=33)
    1.40520461	English
    3.45650112	Scottish
    3.66274487	Welsh
    3.99130305	Dutch
    5.46902185	Irish
    6.22643558	Afrikaner
    7.58362051	Belgian
    7.63302037	Flemish
    7.75595255	Icelandic
    8.34509437	Danish
    
    Distance to:	English_Northeast(n=14)
    2.50163946	English
    3.04447040	Scottish
    3.55503868	Welsh
    4.86860350	Dutch
    5.07306613	Irish
    6.26987241	Afrikaner
    7.37526949	Flemish
    7.44891267	Belgian
    8.74870276	Icelandic
    8.84117639	German
    
    Distance to:	English_Southeast(n=70)
    0.95325757	English
    3.53960450	Dutch
    4.20752897	Scottish
    4.59936952	Welsh
    5.34217184	Afrikaner
    6.31215494	Irish
    6.45749952	Flemish
    6.46887935	Belgian
    8.14872383	Icelandic
    8.34792789	German
    
    Distance to:	English_Southwest(n=25)
    2.85224473	English
    2.95546951	Welsh
    3.42109632	Scottish
    4.64358698	Irish
    6.30669486	Dutch
    6.99016452	Afrikaner
    8.35202969	Belgian
    8.52749084	Flemish
    9.52815302	Icelandic
    10.54076373	German
    
    Distance to:	English_Yorkshire(n=28)
    1.84870225	English
    3.36071421	Dutch
    3.44881139	Scottish
    3.98948618	Welsh
    5.46769604	Irish
    6.86338838	Icelandic
    6.90037680	Afrikaner
    7.60013816	Danish
    7.97365036	Flemish
    8.12299206	Belgian
    
    Distance to:	English_West-Midlands(n=44)
    1.08857705	English
    3.59528858	Dutch
    3.61278286	Scottish
    4.14254753	Welsh
    5.54747690	Afrikaner
    5.95699589	Irish
    6.60147711	Belgian
    6.64021084	Flemish
    8.34076735	German
    8.43677664	Icelandic
    
    Target: English(n=275)
    Distance: 109.6521% / 1.09652061 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    42.8	Dutch
    42.4	Welsh
    11.0	Flemish
    3.8	Spanish
    
    Target: English_East(n=19)
    Distance: 184.7092% / 1.84709175 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    67.8	Dutch
    22.2	Welsh
    10.0	Spanish
    
    Target: English_East-Midlands(n=29)
    Distance: 193.1191% / 1.93119078 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    38.6	Welsh
    29.2	Dutch
    25.8	Belgian
    6.4	Flemish
    
    Target: English_Lancashire(n=33)
    Distance: 153.9340% / 1.53934034 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    49.6	Dutch
    45.2	Welsh
    5.2	Spanish
    
    Target: English_Northeast(n=14)
    Distance: 177.2981% / 1.77298054 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    38.0	Scottish
    32.8	Welsh
    26.4	Flemish
    2.8	Danish
    
    Target: English_Southeast(n=70)
    Distance: 140.4450% / 1.40444961 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    50.2	Dutch
    33.6	Welsh
    11.4	Flemish
    4.8	Spanish
    
    Target: English_Southwest(n=25)
    Distance: 182.3811% / 1.82381129 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    74.4	Welsh
    17.2	Dutch
    8.4	Spanish
    
    Target: English_Yorkshire(n=28)
    Distance: 171.1561% / 1.71156057 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    51.2	Dutch
    44.8	Welsh
    4.0	Flemish
    
    Target: English_West-Midlands(n=44)
    Distance: 111.7175% / 1.11717541 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    43.8	Welsh
    33.4	Dutch
    20.4	Belgian
    2.4	French
    K13
    Code:
    Distance to:	English_Midlands(n=78)
    1.95148661	Dutch
    2.19588251	Welsh
    2.66499531	Dutch_Central
    3.02981848	Scottish
    3.58782664	German_Northwest
    3.61785848	Dutch_South
    3.81028870	French_Brittany
    4.02462421	Dutch_North
    4.52616836	Irish
    4.84022727	Flemish
    
    Distance to:	English_North(n=115)
    1.39075519	Welsh
    1.85905890	Scottish
    1.95161472	Dutch
    2.13197092	Dutch_Central
    3.25356727	Dutch_North
    3.37299570	Irish
    3.60074992	German_Northwest
    4.74803117	Icelandic
    4.88507932	French_Brittany
    4.94447166	Dutch_South
    
    Distance to:	English_Southeast(n=100)
    2.15290501	Dutch
    2.53223222	Welsh
    2.93030715	Dutch_Central
    3.23332646	Dutch_South
    3.38042897	Scottish
    3.56754818	French_Brittany
    3.68841429	German_Northwest
    4.35013793	Dutch_North
    4.43487317	Flemish
    4.84832961	Irish
    
    Distance to:	English_Southwest(n=39)
    1.48067552	Welsh
    2.62131646	Scottish
    2.90582174	Dutch
    3.35405724	Dutch_Central
    3.69017615	French_Brittany
    3.92467833	Irish
    4.36751646	Dutch_South
    4.57129085	Dutch_North
    4.60095642	German_Northwest
    5.52442757	Flemish
    
    Target: English_Midlands(n=78)
    Distance: 22.5957% / 0.22595673 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    42.8	Welsh
    34.4	Dutch
    18.2	Flemish
    4.6	French_Brittany
    
    Target: English_North(n=115)
    Distance: 29.0801% / 0.29080142 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    51.2	Welsh
    40.2	Dutch_Central
    8.6	French_Brittany
    
    Target: English_Southeast(n=100)
    Distance: 24.5970% / 0.24596994 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    43.8	Welsh
    28.8	Flemish
    27.4	Dutch
    
    Target: English_Southwest(n=39)
    Distance: 48.1864% / 0.48186419 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    56.2	Welsh
    28.0	French_Brittany
    15.8	Dutch_Central
    The Viking paper from 2020 gave a figure of under 40% Ancient British-like ancestry vs Ancient Continental ancestry in modern English. Ancient Germanic/Anglo-Saxon ancestry is also a minority, at least since the Norman conquest.
    Last edited by Molfish; 05-18-2022 at 05:56 AM.
    Genealogy to 6 gens: 42% Staffordshire, 40% Offaly, 6% Mayo, 3% Derbyshire, 3% Galway, 3% Shropshire, 1% Roscommon
    Surnames to 4 gens: 10/16 English, 4/16 Irish, 1/16 Welsh, 1/16 unknown
    LivingDNA: 47.8% Ireland, 50.4% England (16.2% NW Eng, 15.7% Central Eng, 7.4% SE Eng, 5.4% Sth Eng, 4.4% S. Yorks, 1.3% S.Central Eng), 1.7% Sth Wales
    AncestryDNA: 48% England & NWE, 45% Ireland, 3% Scotland, 2% Sweden & Denmark, 2% Wales
    G25 closest ancient pop: Faroes_EM @ 0.018

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  6. #444
    Suspended Account
    Posts
    7,208
    Sex
    Location
    Poznan, Poland
    Ethnicity
    Polish (Wielkopolans)
    Nationality
    Polish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-L617 Kapuscinski
    mtDNA (M)
    W6a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a-L1029 Meller

    Poland Poland Pomerania European Union Polish–LithuanianCommonwealth
    Molfish - South Dutch also have strong Celtic admixture.

    Or Belgian (depending if you see the Belgae as Celts, but much of England was inhabited by Belgian tribes such as the Atrebates).

    I made some Belgae and Celtic Briton tribal averages in G25, I will post below.

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  8. #445
    Suspended Account
    Posts
    7,208
    Sex
    Location
    Poznan, Poland
    Ethnicity
    Polish (Wielkopolans)
    Nationality
    Polish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-L617 Kapuscinski
    mtDNA (M)
    W6a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a-L1029 Meller

    Poland Poland Pomerania European Union Polish–LithuanianCommonwealth
    I made these averages for my upcoming G25 calculator (no guarantee that they are final versions, maybe I will update them):

    Code:
    Belgae_Atrebates,0.1289997,0.1418357,0.0614707,0.031977,0.04329,0.0144097,-0.0024283,0.0016923,0.0130897,0.0177983,-0.0028687,0.006994,-0.019326,-0.009083,0.01787,-0.0062317,-0.0137337,0.0007177,-0.001215,-0.0017923,0.0050327,0.0027617,-0.002054,-0.0013257,0.0007187
    Belgae_Suessiones,0.12862,0.149283,0.053174,0.031654,0.050163,0.014781,0.001645,-0.004615,0.01268,0.01057,-0.008444,0.009142,-0.018583,-0.007432,0.019137,-0.003315,-0.014081,0.014316,0.009176,0.002001,0.001622,-0.000866,0.002465,0.000964,0.000718
    Britannia_Brigantes,0.1291259,0.1314547,0.0600042,0.0525413,0.033955,0.0198322,0.0001306,0.0032563,0.0025451,0.0006888,-0.006297,0.0036136,-0.0158902,-0.0143129,0.0251987,0.0040513,-0.0072291,0.0006333,-0.0000141,0.0034876,0.0077363,0.0025007,-0.0048068,0.0070557,-0.0032731
    Britannia_Caledones,0.1305713,0.1356456,0.0616323,0.0526029,0.0379849,0.0201997,0.0012757,0.0055053,0.004821,0.00302,-0.0055446,0.0065086,-0.0149299,-0.0151191,0.0260971,-0.0003031,-0.0194086,0.0045609,0.0021549,0.0053061,0.0044566,0.0062179,-0.0025177,0.0110686,-0.0002564
    Britannia_Cantiaci,0.127281,0.1341694,0.0616481,0.047918,0.0398625,0.0166022,0.0013685,0.0051309,0.0065328,0.0074931,-0.0030375,0.0061357,-0.0156969,-0.0148064,0.0199269,0.0082986,-0.0005063,0.002422,0.0028244,0.0029132,0.0033984,0.0040514,-0.0008338,0.0034661,0.0021202
    Britannia_Dumnonii_Cornovii,0.1285325,0.1352997,0.0606874,0.0529968,0.0399364,0.0155535,0.0020427,0.0038873,0.0066705,0.0038971,-0.006708,0.0072168,-0.0136652,-0.0156995,0.0230308,0.0098013,-0.0031492,0.0004775,0.002659,0.0051852,0.0048568,0.0025682,0.0006068,0.0065808,-0.0024595
    Britannia_Durotriges,0.1295687,0.1368595,0.0604525,0.0475348,0.0403869,0.0165568,0.0010888,0.0062228,0.0076561,0.0075325,-0.0058676,0.0062695,-0.0147223,-0.0139642,0.0212673,0.0047157,-0.0075231,0.0022888,0.001433,0.0026846,0.0053073,0.0054491,-0.0019884,0.0057879,-0.0024149
    Britannia_Iceni,0.134311,0.136758,0.0599623,0.0504957,0.0455467,0.0158967,0.0001567,-0.001077,0.013362,0.005467,-0.004655,0.005345,-0.0126857,-0.015689,0.0253797,0.0137893,0.001043,0.0,0.0031843,0.0035433,0.0056983,0.003998,-0.0061213,0.0091577,0.004311
    Britannia_Trinovantes,0.1293031,0.1346591,0.0609806,0.0469319,0.0396381,0.0178211,0.0006815,0.0036922,0.0069539,0.0045559,-0.004969,0.0058748,-0.0154607,-0.018634,0.0206701,0.0050914,-0.0032074,0.0001141,0.0003142,0.0063531,0.0055901,0.0041052,-0.0007887,0.0040969,0.0004311
    Britannia_Votadini,0.1322247,0.1284645,0.0630422,0.0586245,0.0342628,0.0182675,0.0047003,0.0068842,-0.001159,-0.0006378,-0.0060355,0.0071685,-0.0144697,-0.0137852,0.0255607,0.0084637,-0.0083227,-0.0014992,0.0005028,0.0027097,0.004201,0.0026173,-0.0002262,0.0093185,-0.004271
    Atrebates is based on Belage who lived in England (but there were was another tribe of the same name in Belgium), Suessiones is based on samples from France.

    When making this calculator I realized that we don't really have much of "Proper Gauls" DNA yet.

    We just have Suessiones (who were Belgic not Gallic) and Salluvii (who were Ligurian, not Gallic):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salyes

    Code:
    Ligures_Salluvii,0.1274816,0.1464394,0.0609428,0.0139536,0.0461622,0.0001116,0.000799,0.003877,0.018448,0.0350988,-0.0019164,0.0130684,-0.020188,-0.0122206,0.0103692,0.0010872,-0.0034682,0.0030912,0.0022876,3e-04,0.002346,0.0029676,-0.0042398,-0.0011808,-0.0028502
    ^^^ This tribe lived near modern city of Marseille and they were not Gallic / Celtic, but Ligurian.

    Ligures_Salluvii = France_SouthEast_IA2 (400-200 BCE):

    Distance to: Ligures_Salluvii
    0.01841312 French_Chalosse
    0.01898570 Basque_Araba
    0.01923761 French_Bigorre
    0.02059441 Spanish_Biscay
    0.02063119 French_South

    =====

    For comparison Celts from Czechia and Slovakia:

    Code:
    Celts_Boii,0.1266689,0.1414489,0.0572684,0.0347456,0.0442279,0.0097611,0.0063787,0.0061976,0.0087946,0.0096846,-0.0066117,0.0027619,-0.0101939,-0.008336,0.0089187,0.0042617,-0.0019186,0.000525,0.0033759,0.001983,0.006542,0.004646,-0.0023064,-0.0055771,0.0003934
    Celts_Kotini,0.1286203,0.1472517,0.0533625,0.024225,0.0413922,0.0080178,-0.001645,0.0017305,0.0112488,0.0213215,-0.0023545,0.0037092,-0.0108895,-0.0054705,0.0066502,0.0007293,-0.0025752,0.0041808,0.0062222,9.37e-05,0.0016535,0.003153,-0.0026805,-0.000964,0.001826
    There is also a Rhaetian sample from Switzerland:

    Code:
    Raeti_Vennones,0.125205,0.153345,0.050534,-0.003876,0.049548,-0.005578,0.0047,-0.002077,0.014726,0.033896,0.001786,0.016335,-0.016353,-0.008945,0.001764,-0.001591,0.009518,0.001647,0.002514,-0.006128,0.005241,0.005688,-0.012078,-0.004338,0.000958
    Last edited by Tomenable; 05-18-2022 at 08:57 AM.

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  10. #446
    Suspended Account
    Posts
    7,208
    Sex
    Location
    Poznan, Poland
    Ethnicity
    Polish (Wielkopolans)
    Nationality
    Polish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-L617 Kapuscinski
    mtDNA (M)
    W6a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1a-L1029 Meller

    Poland Poland Pomerania European Union Polish–LithuanianCommonwealth
    Distances for G25 British tribes (there are already so many samples from various regions of Iron Age Britain, that averages for tribes and/or regions can be made):

    [I can also make K36 averages for these tribes, using the same individuals / samples for each average]

    Distance to: Britannia_Caledones
    0.01353927 Orcadian
    0.01406054 Scottish
    0.01417687 Irish
    0.01715905 English
    0.01750891 English_Cornwall

    Distance to: Britannia_Trinovantes
    0.01524329 Welsh
    0.01578027 French_Brittany
    0.01693829 Orcadian
    0.01718783 Scottish
    0.01747535 Irish

    Distance to: Britannia_Iceni
    0.02176731 Welsh
    0.02327957 French_Brittany
    0.02379064 Irish
    0.02407479 English
    0.02437688 Orcadian

    Distance to: Britannia_Durotriges
    0.01061307 Welsh
    0.01239006 Orcadian
    0.01256399 French_Brittany
    0.01261817 English
    0.01304242 Scottish

    Distance to: Britannia_Dumnonii_Cornovii
    0.01618669 Welsh
    0.01621448 Irish
    0.01625966 Orcadian
    0.01653236 Scottish
    0.01765638 Dutch

    Distance to: Britannia_Cantiaci
    0.01563601 Welsh
    0.01676591 French_Brittany
    0.01801166 Dutch
    0.01841752 Orcadian
    0.01853748 English

    Distance to: Britannia_Brigantes
    0.01400114 Orcadian
    0.01439713 Irish
    0.01562409 Scottish
    0.01914934 English
    0.01947741 Norwegian

    Distance to: Britannia_Votadini
    0.01655682 Irish
    0.01733775 Norwegian
    0.01818779 Icelandic
    0.01859552 Scottish
    0.01877958 Orcadian

    =====
    =====
    =====

    Belgae for comparison:

    Distance to: Belgae_Suessiones
    0.02798327 BelgianA
    0.03030912 BelgianC
    0.03051288 French_Nord
    0.03153882 French_Brittany
    0.03176919 French_Paris

    Distance to: Belgae_Atrebates
    0.02309555 BelgianA
    0.02424221 BelgianC
    0.02435641 French_Brittany
    0.02625155 French_Nord
    0.02810842 English_Cornwall
    Last edited by Tomenable; 05-18-2022 at 09:03 AM.

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  12. #447
    Registered Users
    Posts
    577
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    English/Irish
    aDNA Match (1st)
    England_Mid-Late Iron Age:I20623
    aDNA Match (2nd)
    Norway_Mid_MA:VK117
    aDNA Match (3rd)
    England_Iron Age:I0160
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-M222
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a10
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-U106
    mtDNA (P)
    H1bz

    Australia Mercia Ireland Leinster
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    [I can also make K36 averages for these tribes, using the same individuals / samples for each average]
    That'd be good.
    Genealogy to 6 gens: 42% Staffordshire, 40% Offaly, 6% Mayo, 3% Derbyshire, 3% Galway, 3% Shropshire, 1% Roscommon
    Surnames to 4 gens: 10/16 English, 4/16 Irish, 1/16 Welsh, 1/16 unknown
    LivingDNA: 47.8% Ireland, 50.4% England (16.2% NW Eng, 15.7% Central Eng, 7.4% SE Eng, 5.4% Sth Eng, 4.4% S. Yorks, 1.3% S.Central Eng), 1.7% Sth Wales
    AncestryDNA: 48% England & NWE, 45% Ireland, 3% Scotland, 2% Sweden & Denmark, 2% Wales
    G25 closest ancient pop: Faroes_EM @ 0.018

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  14. #448
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,586
    Sex

    I have added the county of origin for each British sample, from 1200 BC until 400 AD.

    https://pastebin.com/raw/zQq4GTUU

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  16. #449
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,509
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-BY27340
    mtDNA (M)
    H1q2a

    Spain Andalucia Basque
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    I made these averages for my upcoming G25 calculator (no guarantee that they are final versions, maybe I will update them):

    e]
    You could add at least two Celtiberian tribes from North Spain to that calculator: Berones (Iberia_North_IA) and Cantabri (Spain_LIA?).

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  18. #450
    Global Moderator
    Posts
    4,449
    Sex
    Location
    Vissaiom
    Ethnicity
    Portuguese highlander
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Y31991>FT17866
    mtDNA (M)
    H20 (xH20a)

    Asturias Galicia Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ PortugalRoyalFlag1830
    Quote Originally Posted by mokordo View Post
    You could add at least two Celtiberian tribes from North Spain to that calculator: Berones (Iberia_North_IA) and Cantabri (Spain_LIA?).
    I've been reading about the site, and apparently the Bernorio-Miraveche group should probably be labelled Vaccaei/Celtiberian rather than Cantabri since they seemed to have had greater cultural affinity with the south rather than the north, eventhough they were part of the Cantabrian side of the war with Rome. From a genetics pov I don't think this label makes any difference, though.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1000AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6404"
    Ruderico

    Gallic_North_IA,48
    West_Iberia_IA,31
    Berber_EMA,11
    Roman_Colonial,10

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