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Thread: Vajunites - connection to Slovenia?

  1. #11
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    That would be great!!
    Yes, I've noticed there is very little information in English and Greek, also on the internet. That's why I started google- translating Slavic sources for "Vajuniti". :-) Thank you so much! I will be back with more info later today when I have some more time. Talk to you later!!

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     JonikW (06-20-2018)

  3. #12
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    So this is a list of the Slavic names of villages belonging to the "Kourenta" group of villages which must have been settlements of the Vajunites:

    Veltsista: "white place" (Gortzis)/ from the Slavic "Belciste" (Vasmer), area or fields belonging to Velts (Velts= fountain of water to the west of the village, river Veltsistino) (Bettis)/ of Slavic origin (Velts+ista)/ Slavic toponym (Oikonomou)

    Gribovo and Gribianι: a) Vlach word...or b) Slavic word meaning place where mushrooms are abundant

    Gourianista: (Vasmer) Gorjaniste, Gorjane= inhabitant of the mountain, (Oikonomou) Slavic "Gorjan"(Gor= arson < goreti= to burn+ ending -ist

    Granitsopoula: Slavic, granica= sort of oak well-known in the area

    Doliana: doljane= slavic word for inhabitant of the valley

    Dragomι: Dragomir?

    Zagoriani: (Vasmar) Slavic word zagorjane (the one who lives behind the forests-?), the name was given most probably by the Slavs who had settled at the back and western side of Ano Kalamas river).

    Zelista: zeleno?

    Zitsa: Slavic, soul or border

    Karitsa: (Oikonomou), slavic "koryto" (basin)/ Slavic garb < v. goreti (to burn)/ (Bettis) Slavic, kara = punishment or sentence

    Kosoliani: of Slavic origin- no further explanation

    Kourenta: of Slavic origin - no further explanation (Kurent???)

    Mosiari: ? sounds a bit Slavic too but could not find info

    Brianista: ? sounds Slavic to me :-) but again could not find info

    Pogdoriani: Slavic word meaning a place under the mountains

    Raiko/Rajko: from the surname Raikos, Greek version of the Slavic Rajko. Name of the first settler or owner of the area/ Slavic noun "Raj"= paradise

    Rahovitsa/ Riahovo (see Arahovistsa): place with walnuts

    Sioutista: was founded by Souliotes (Arvanites) that fled to the area as Sioutista from the Slavic name of the mountain "Kasidiaris" which refers to a goat without horns

    Tserkovista/ Tsarkovista: Slavic "Cerkov"+ ista, area with churches
    Last edited by Alexandra_K; 06-20-2018 at 01:44 PM.

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     JonikW (06-20-2018)

  5. #13
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    Hello again, JonikW! I have started doubting about something...I was going over the translated sources about the Vajunites again and the following crossed my mind: Does "Slovenian" mean (also) "Slavic" in general in Slavic langages? Because if this is the case, I must have been misled by the inaccurate automatic translation into thinking that the origin of the Vajunites is indeed "Slovenian" instead of broadly "Slavic" as the actual meaning might be.

    One example:

    Ime Vajoniti, je najverovaznije poteklo od njegovog buntovnog karaktera. Dugo su zadržali tradicionalna slovenske verovanja,...

    Automatic Translation:

    The name Vajoniti is most likely derived from his rebellious character. They have long retained traditional Slovene beliefs....

    Another:

    Istorijska fakta ukazuju da je mreža slovenskih plemena pokrivala prostranstvo evropskog jugoistoka do zemljišnog pojasa između južnih jadranskih obala i Solunskog zaliva. Istočni deo ove u izvesnom smislu tampon-zone između slovenskog i grčkog etničkog područja kroz dobar deo Srednjeg veka naseljavaju Vlasi, Cincari (u Tesaliji, Velikoj Vlahiotskoj kažu izvori), a zapadni, prošireni deo ka Epiru i Drimu i iza njega (na severu) starobalkanski etnički supstrat koji će se tek duboko u Srednjem veku uobličiti u albanski narod. Na jugu Balkana će slovenske manjine dugo egzistirati, čak i na Peloponezu, zemlji okruženoj morem - Moreji. Na severu će oaze starobalkanskog življa biti izložene slavizaciji, a deo balkanskih Romana, Vlaha migrirao je preko Dunava ka Erdelju da bi sa dačkim starosedeocima ušao u sastav pozno pojavljenog rumunskog naroda.

    Translation:

    Historical facts indicate that a network of Slovenian tribes covered the vastness of the European southeast to the land belt between the southern Adriatic coasts and the Gulf of Thessaloniki. The eastern part of this, in a certain sense of the buffer zone between the Slavic and Greek ethnic areas, through the greater part of the Middle Ages is inhabited by the Vlachs, the Cincara (in Thessaly, the Great Vlahi, sources say), and the western, extended part towards Epirus and Drim and behind it (in the north) an old-Balkan ethnic substratum that will only form deep into the Middle Ages in the Albanian people. In the south of the Balkans, Slovene minorities will long exist, even on Peloponnese, a land surrounded by the sea - Morea. In the north, the oasis of the Old Balkan people will be exposed to slavisation, and part of the Balkan Romans, Vlaho, migrated across the Danube to Erdelje to enter the late tribe of the late people of the country.

    Yet another:

    Zabeležena su imena nekih od plemena balkanskih Slovena [3]: Severci ili Severjani (grč. Σεβερειζ), Moravci (grč. Μωραβων), Timočani, Drugovići (lat. Drogawitz), Sagudati, Velegeziti, Vajuniti, Brziti ili Brsjaci, Milinci, Jezerci, Duljebi, Bodrići, itd.

    Translation:

    The names of some of the tribes of Balkan Slovenes are listed: Severci or Severjani (Σεβερειζ), Moravci (Μωραβων), Timočani, Drugovići (Lat. Drogawitz), Sagudati, Velegeziti, Vajuniti, Brziti or Brsjaci, Milinci, Jezerci, Duljebi, Bodrići, etc.

    I start believing that I was misled by the translation...:-(

    However, if this is the case, the question still remains in the following form: Which Southern Slavs are the Vajunites related to?

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     JonikW (06-20-2018)

  7. #14
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    Also Kurent/Kourenta would be a curious coincidence, in this case, but still maybe the same mythical figure was shared in the past by other Slavic groups as well.

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    I see my crazy mushroom idea might be right. They're wrong about beyond the forests, I think. It's mountains. Yes, Slavic is more likely (based on my knowledge of Russian anyway), although Slav and Slovene are surely linked etymologically. In any case, most of those place names are definitely Slavic. Would be very interested if you find out more.
    Last edited by JonikW; 06-20-2018 at 02:29 PM.
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  10. #16
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    Yep! The mushroom idea seems to be a success! :-) I will keep on searching for more!

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  12. #17
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    Most of the villages' names were changed or hellenized in the 20th century. Our village's name was changed in 1928 from Tsarkovista to Ekklisohori (Greek literal translation). Others changed even as late as the 1950's or even 60's, if I remember right.

    Now about the name of our village, more specifically, I am quoting (and translating) P.D. Tziovas from his book: Ekklisohori, Tsarkovista Ioanninon:

    "The name Tsarkovista or Tserkovista is produced by the Slavic Curkua (=church) and together with the known toponymic ending -ica, it means position of a church, or place dedicated to a church or even a village near a church and this, beacause the ending -ista is plural (Bettis). Labridis supports that the name is "signifying a place with the meaning, small royal property, from the replacement of consonants in Tsarskovica", and in another instance he claims that the name comes from "cerkov (=church) and that it denotes a dedication to the maintainance of a church". Finally, Vasmer regards as most probable that the name is produced by the Bulgarian, tsirky, tserkov, tserko-viste that means church".

    "According to Pr. Zakinthinos the epirot toponyms Tsarkovista, Tserkovista, Tserkouviana etc. are etymologically connected to the Old Slavic word meaning church and as such could not be older than the second half of the 9th century, when the apostolic action was observed for the christianization of the Slavs. The size of the villages (oikismoi) where the Slavs settled depended on the number and the order of the inhabitants and ranged from 5,000 to 30,000 square meters. Each village (oikismos) had on average 8-10 houses with 40-50 appr. inhabitants, while the big villages could reach 20 houses with approx. 100 inhabitants."

    "Based on this, the largest group of Slavic invaders must have settled to the west of today's village in the position "Selio" which means village, where there was according to the inhabitants' tradition, the most ancient church of the area, dedicated to Saint Taxiarches. Of course, the Slavic invaders settled all over the village, by displacing or annihilating the weaker local residents, from whom only the women survived, who through intermarriage secured many racial qualities of the natives, with first and foremost the passing down of the Greek language to new generations".

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  14. #18
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    Hi,

    http://histdict.uni-sofia.bg/oldbgdi..._show/d_08740/ --> this is "Slavic" in Old Slavonic(Old Bulgarian) ..."словѣньскъ ѩзыкъ"- "Slavic language".

    At the time of Vajunites' settlement all Slavs could still understand each other,no matter what part of Europe they settled in. No particular link to the nowadays Slovenes (Slovenians).

    Here is a list of toponyms in Ioanina district by Vesmer, I think you'll find it interesting:

    http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/mv/mv_3_1a.htm

     
    321. Τσαρκοβίστα ON, Kr. Joannina (Lex.), nach A. Τσαρακοβίστα und Τσερκοβίστα. Hilferding a. a. O. schreibt den Namen Τσερκοβίστα. Bei Sathas DI IV S. XLIX findet sich Τσαρακοβίτσα, ebenso Philippson, Epirus 205. Ich gehe aus von abg. crъky, gen. crъkъve »Kirche«, bulg. cъrkov, crъkva, čerkva, čerkova, skr. cr̂kva usw. Zur Sippe s. Berneker EW 1132. In Ortsnamen läßt sich nachweisen bulg. Čerkovište, Čerkovna, Cъrkva, skr. Crkvicа, Crkvina, Crkvenica u. a. Die zuerst genannte bulg. Form kommt als Quelle des epirotischen Namens in erster Linie in Betracht. An der Stelle von Τσαρκοβίστα hat man nach H. Kieperts Vorgange den alten Orakelort Dodona gesucht. Es ist bezeichnend, daß der Ort des heidnischen Kultsitzes von den Slaven als »Kirchenort« benannt worden ist. Zur Lage von Dodona vgl. Treidler, Epirus S. 10 und 47 (mit Liter.). Genau zu diesem Namen stimmt auch Τζέρκβιστα, eine δημοσιακή πλανινή περί


    The etymology of the village cannot be from "Tsar" (Czar), because at that time the word for Tsar was "цѣсар҄ь" (tsesar... from Καῖσαρ)...It would evolve into Tsar by the end of XIIc.
    http://histdict.uni-sofia.bg/dictionary/show/d_10715

    It would be interesting to know how long Slavonic was used in Christian rites as the region switched political rule and dioceses several times...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishopric_of_Ohrid

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  16. #19
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    Thank you so much, td120! This is all very very interesting! JonikW, here is another big list for you too ;-)
    Yes, it would be definitely interesting to know that! Plus, for how long was the Slavic language used by the settlers in the villages? It could have lasted even for some centuries, I would think, before its total assimilation.
    I always found it funny as a child that all the older ladies in the village were having Slavic-sounding names. My granny was Kostayannova for example, because she was the wife of Kostas whose father was Yannis. My grandfather's grandmother for whom I was told stories about her life, was Vassilantonova. Another older ancestor was Dinkaloerinova. And many many others of course that I just don't remember. Their official names were not known in the village, so as a little child I had to answer "Kostayannova" when I was asked "who's your grandmother?".:-)

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    That's amazing to hear about that Slavic survival in your village. Also, td120, if you're there, it's great that Slavic languages are still so mutually intelligible if you think carefully and fill in the gaps. You must have noticed it yourself. Last year in your country we got stuck on a beautiful mountain but we were able to have quite a complex conversation to arrange for a man to send a driver up, us speaking in Russian and him in Bulgarian. It was interesting.
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