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Thread: E1b1b1a1b1a3~

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    I'm no anti-semite so if it was Jewish it was Jewish. But no sign of this.
    Still a miracle when it came with the funnel beakers than it must be before 2700 BC infused......that's 4700 YBP, let's say my forefathers were on average 30 years old before they died, that's a chain of 157 forefathers, with no single hick up.
    I'm no mathematician but what's the chance??? May be the chance is bigger that I'm strucked by lightning in my life
    Maybe at a time there were others, but wars and diseases killed off most lineages until the only ones that are currently known are those in Friesland? It was probably something very minor the whole time though. I guess our haplogroups are somewhat parallel in this regard, eventhough E-M123* seems mostly European today
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

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    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6157"
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    Iberia_IA,55.2
    Gaelic,26.2
    ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
    North_African,8.6
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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylsteen View Post
    That late medieval Oldenzaal sample may be interesting; also since Oldenzaal is quite catholic. For myself it is interesting that 8 of the 180 (medieval) Oldenzaal samples were W5 as I saw in this research. I don't see the E1b sample in there but they may have done more research.
    I don't think Y-DNA follows religion....E-V22 as the Catholic DNA....

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Yes back tot the 17th century, skippers in a place called Wartena. That's in the center of Friesland, until the 19th century the traffic went only by waterways!

    They belonged to an in Friesland tiny community of Catholics. Jews came in about 1650 and then to the Frisian tiny cities, not the tiny villages.... Ans I guess it would not be logical to convert to Catholicism as a convinced Jew. By the way research on Jewish E-V22 lines were dead end street for me....

    Not a place, or community, were you get easily get acces as an 'outsider', no urban Amsterdam!
    Skippers went around in Friesland back then. Combined with the fact they were Catholics, a religious minority in the 17th century Frisia, could mean loyalty was based more on religion than on community. I've seen this a lot in genealogy, also with Mennonists. That could have provided a route where a non-local married in.

    Mind you, these religious loyalties also created an exception for the rule that most people married in the their social status.
    Last edited by epoch; 11-28-2018 at 03:23 PM.

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    I don't think Y-DNA follows religion....E-V22 as the Catholic DNA....
    Marriage did follow religion. Especially is case of religious minorities such as 17th century Frisian Catholics.

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  8. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    Marriage did follow religion. Especially is case of religious minorities such as 17th century Frisian Catholics.
    Agree. There was even a kind of Frisian/ Groninger catholic skipper circuit, like a part of the same family was Amish like Groninger Oud Vlaming. Endogamy. But the connection between catholic Frisians and specific E-V22 isn’t clear to me yet. There are signs they were ‘deep Frisians’ their names (Haye, Fokke], their jobs skipper/farming, living in tiny villages....the catholic minority were more than a third of the populationin their heartland (Wartena, Warga).

    http://hethooghiem.nl/Geschiedenis/KONINGVW.pdf

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  10. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Agree. There was even a kind of Frisian/ Groninger catholic skipper circuit, like a part of the same family was Amish like Groninger Oud Vlaming. Endogamy. But the connection between catholic Frisians and specific E-V22 isn’t clear to me yet. There are signs they were ‘deep Frisians’ their names (Haye, Fokke], their jobs skipper/farming, living in tiny villages....the catholic minority were more than a third of the populationin their heartland (Wartena, Warga).

    http://hethooghiem.nl/Geschiedenis/KONINGVW.pdf
    And if you can trace it back to early 17th century and the male lineage does not have an odd patronym the effect is basically gone because halfway the 16th century Catholicism wouldn't be such a oddity in Frisia. So I reckon, on second thought, that you can indeed rule that religious preference. But skippers do get around and do meet other skippers. In my family it was a constant factor which brought in other branches from other provinces.

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  12. #67
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    In the early 8th century the Frisian nobles came into increasing conflict with the Franks to their south, resulting in a series of wars in which the Frankish Empire eventually subjugated Frisia in 734. These wars benefited attempts by Anglo-Irish missionaries (which had begun with Saint Boniface) to convert the Frisian populace to Christianity, in which Saint Willibrord largely succeeded.

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  14. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    And if you can trace it back to early 17th century and the male lineage does not have an odd patronym the effect is basically gone because halfway the 16th century Catholicism wouldn't be such a oddity in Frisia. So I reckon, on second thought, that you can indeed rule that religious preference. But skippers do get around and do meet other skippers. In my family it was a constant factor which brought in other branches from other provinces.
    I see your point, later came mostly Westfalian Catholics to Friesland, but in these case it are stubborn Frisians that refused the reformation

  15. #69
    Sorry but that is ridiculous. There are multiple bearers of Y-DNA E-V12, E-V13, E-V22, E-M123, and even E-M81 throughout the British Isles. Many of these subclades have TMRCA dating to the Bronze Age, Copper Age, and Neolithic. The Normans left practically no genetic impact on the general population of the British Isles, with the exception of the upper classes. The Normans were mainly a mixture of Norsemen and the descendants of Romanized Gauls. The idea that North Africans in Roman garrisons--that is to say if there were any at all or in a significant number in Roman Gaul--contributed to the ancestry of the Romano-Gauls (Celts) that later admixed with Norseman, resulting in that genetic legacy being transplanted by their Norman descendants to isolated pockets of Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales, the Netherlands, and even Sweden, is nothing short of absurd. Do we even have Phoenician DNA? How do we know it is because of them? The Phoenicians did not colonize places in the same way the Greeks did, meaning their genetic legacy would have had much less of an impact compared to their cultural impact or that of the Greeks. Many of these subclades have no relation to Jewish ones. We have no DNA from Roman settlements in France as far as I know, so how do we know what lineages they brought? The Jewish, Roman, Phoenician angle has always been the simplest explanation in a lot of these cases but as of late, ancient DNA/genetics is proving most of these elementary, amateurish explanations wrong.
    Last edited by Jack Johnson; 03-04-2019 at 07:16 AM.

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  17. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Johnson View Post
    Sorry but that is ridiculous. There are multiple bearers of Y-DNA E-V12, E-V13, E-V22, E-M123, and even E-M81 throughout the British Isles. Many of these subclades have TMRCA dating to the Bronze Age, Copper Age, and Neolithic. The Normans left practically no genetic impact on the general population of the British Isles, with the exception of the upper classes. The Normans were mainly a mixture of Norsemen and the descendants of Romanized Gauls. The idea that North Africans in Roman garrisons--that is to say if there were any at all or in a significant number in Roman Gaul--contributed to the ancestry of the Romano-Gauls (Celts) that later admixed with Norseman, resulting in that genetic legacy being transplanted by their Norman descendants to isolated pockets of Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales, the Netherlands, and even Sweden, is nothing short of absurd. Do we even have Phoenician DNA? How do we know it is because of them? The Phoenicians did not colonize places in the same way the Greeks did, meaning their genetic legacy would have had much less of an impact compared to their cultural impact or that of the Greeks. Many of these subclades have no relation to Jewish ones. We have no DNA from Roman settlements in France as far as I know, so how do we know what lineages they brought? The Jewish, Roman, Phoenician angle has always been the simplest explanation in a lot of these cases but as of late, ancient DNA/genetics is proving most of these elementary, amateurish explanations wrong.
    What late ancient DNA tests prove that E-V22 has been in Europe prior to the Jewish diaspora? I am hard pressed to find any online resources that show E-V22 being present in non-Jewish European populations. Iím not conradicting you, I just havenít seen the evidence you have.

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