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Thread: Indo Aryan migration , still an accurate hypothesis ?

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    Why are then south asians missing E and swatIA missing Z93, swat may be related but are not the source for steppe. Also too much Z93 among Jatts, I think no less than L, so can't be simply ignored.
    I don't think modern south asians are missing E, other day I was looking at some pahari-punjabi kits and found someone with E on gedmatch. He was likely from north punjab/potohar looking at his results. So there will be others around south asia as well.

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  3. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by bol_nat View Post
    I don't think modern south asians are missing E, other day I was looking at some pahari-punjabi kits and found someone with E on gedmatch. He was likely from north punjab/potohar looking at his results. So there will be others around south asia as well.
    Not missing, but the presence is minuscule.
    Swat IA not only has only both E1a and E1b, but also DE which likely is some form of E.
    In fact its presence is so limited among those of non West Asian vintage today that the E in Pathans was thought to have a Greek connection.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2588664/

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    Quote Originally Posted by bol_nat View Post
    I don't think modern south asians are missing E, other day I was looking at some pahari-punjabi kits and found someone with E on gedmatch. He was likely from north punjab/potohar looking at his results. So there will be others around south asia as well.
    That’s true. Also, we’re still not sure about the accuracy of these Y-DNA E calls in the swat samples, as far as I know.
    However, E is still found in India (Brahmins too).

    It’s important to know that the concept of “Brahminhood” as we know it today wasn’t always the case in ancient South Asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus View Post
    That’s true. Also, we’re still not sure about the accuracy of these Y-DNA E calls in the swat samples, as far as I know.
    However, E is still found in India (Brahmins too).
    Tharu in Morang District, Nepal (Fornarino et al. 2009):
    3/37 = 8.1% E-M35(xM78)

    3/37 = 8.1% H-M69(xM52, APT)
    2/37 = 5.4% H-M82

    5/37 = 13.5% J2a-M410(xM68, M47, M67, M158)
    3/37 = 8.1% J2b-M12/M102/M241(xM99)

    1/37 = 2.7% K-M9(xT-M70, L-M20, NO-M214, P-M74)

    2/37 = 5.4% L-M76

    4/37 = 10.8% O-M95
    7/37 = 18.9% O-M117

    6/37 = 16.2% R-M17(xM56, M64, PK5)
    1/37 = 2.7% R-M124

    One of twenty-one individuals selected from a sample collected in Bhutan whose Y-DNA has been analyzed by Hallast et al. (2014) also belongs to haplogroup E:
    Bhu-1164 belongs to E1b1b1b2a1a1a1a1f1a-S9747. This clade should fall alongside an individual from the Yemeni Hadramaut and an individual from
    Cagliari, Sardinia in E-Y5435*(xY5412) on YFull: formed 7,600 [95% CI 6,200 <-> 9,000] ybp, TMRCA 6,000 [95% CI 5,000 <-> 7,100] ybp.
    It is a subclade of E-M84, a typically Semitic branch of Y-DNA haplogroup E1b1b1.

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  9. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by bol_nat View Post
    I don't think modern south asians are missing E, other day I was looking at some pahari-punjabi kits and found someone with E on gedmatch. He was likely from north punjab/potohar looking at his results. So there will be others around south asia as well.
    I don't think that is how it works, high E in swat but hardly any where else where you can find other IAs. If we are going to ignore proportions then there is no need to pay any attention to the presence of Z93 either, and the one you mentioned is again only in a place which is close to swat. E should be everywhere where you can find IAs and especially brahmins.
    Last edited by Jatt1; 07-08-2018 at 05:26 AM.

  10. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus View Post
    That’s true. Also, we’re still not sure about the accuracy of these Y-DNA E calls in the swat samples, as far as I know.
    However, E is still found in India (Brahmins too).

    It’s important to know that the concept of “Brahminhood” as we know it today wasn’t always the case in ancient South Asia.
    Little if any E and also mostly among the tribals too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Well archaeology and linguistics , as well as genetics backs it up. The oldest evidence of horses and horse bits are found there , I think that should give you a clue, they have not found any in painted ware, unless your suggesting Indo Aryans arrived via Burma. Uniparental markers in NW South Asia are useless as you can have L or J Steppe shifted Jatt or H1a Kalash and a R1a Z93 Chamar with minimal to nil Steppe. The case for Brahmins can easily be explained from severe founder effects and inbreeding and they interestingly cluster with Pakistani Gujjars , who in turn are very similar to Saidu Sharif types.
    All Punjabi speak Punjabi even when their yDNA and aDNA are different, there is no genetic limitation for language learning. Horses don't carry Z93. How much yDNA is available from painted ware? L and J Jatts are from further north originally so are expected to have extra steppe. Kalash girls pick their partners so H1a among them is no surprise and most likely from Gujjars and the like. Do I really need to explain here the source of R1a in Chamars and also why their steppe is minimal, I guess not. Founder effect in Brahmins may be true only in Bengal etc. but not everywhere else. Generally, Brahmins have high NE while Gujjars have high Caucasus, are you suggesting that Gujjars and Brahmins are the same people, have same roots? The truth is that we just don't have the original IAs DNA yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Interesting you modelled some Northern Indians with Iran_Chl, and with a very good fit.
    Yeah, and the Swat sample score significant BMAC/Tepe Hissar compared to most modern indo Aryans, probably because the moderns eventually mixed more with SIS 3 + additional steppe groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus View Post
    Yeah, and the Swat sample score significant BMAC/Tepe Hissar compared to most modern indo Aryans, probably because the moderns eventually mixed more with SIS 3 + additional steppe groups.
    tepe hissar high in Telugu castes such as Kamma, Reddy, Velama also SIS3 is very high close to 70% with SWAT like Barikot/Udegram/Butkara close to 10-20% in some samples.
    Y: H1a1a4b3b1a8 Yfull id-> YF83218
    Medals->Hidden Content
    mtDNA:U2a1a2
    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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  16. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus View Post
    Yeah, and the Swat sample score significant BMAC/Tepe Hissar compared to most modern indo Aryans, probably because the moderns eventually mixed more with SIS 3 + additional steppe groups.
    Yes but in many cases like those Khatris/Arains are very similar to those Udegram/Loebanr types ( since they are from that region ), A Khatri was modelled with almost 40% BMAC related ancestry with a good fit on Poi's runs. Though in the case of Indo Aryan groups in Northern India, they mixed in with very SiS3 type groups . An interesting thing with Khatris, is there is a subgroup of Sikh Khatris in Peshawar and many of them migrated from ancestral villages in FATA/Waziristan. They evaded moving in Partition , as they were protected by Turi/Shia Pashtuns.

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