Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 66

Thread: Gedmatch automated PCA for South/Central Asian members

  1. #21
    Banned
    Posts
    3,063
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    L1a1
    mtDNA
    M30

    Quote Originally Posted by mlakshmi View Post
    i have to ask since i see so many comments on this. what is your definition of "indian" looking?
    A mental conception of the average of Indian looks compared to the rest of the world. It would exclude looks associated with the border regions and extreme cases like tribals

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to bmoney For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (07-23-2018),  kush (09-06-2018),  poi (07-23-2018)

  3. #22
    Banned
    Posts
    442
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Bengali
    Y-DNA
    R2A2 (R-P267)
    mtDNA
    M52A

    We have our regional biases when it comes to judging what we think characterizes the overall Indian subcontinent range in looks. I recognize my own being Indian Bengali or I guess center-east which I plot genetically as well as physically. Up till few years ago, there was incredible racism going on in urban metropolitan areas across "mainland" India against northeast Indians. But as a Bengali I didn't find why or how someone from Assam or Manipur or Meghalaya could be called as Chinese by anyone in India. We also have real ethnic Han Chinese in Kolkata so the differences and nuances are veasily visible to us. Even concept of there being a so called mainland India and a separate northeast is ahistorical because the whole "chicken neck" area like that like maybe 20km across near northern end of West Bengal connecting rest of India to Assam is only a chicken neck due to the partition of India. There is no geographical feature (which would have implications in population continuity across as well as population density) in the middle of the chicken neck separating so called mainland from northeast. In a way people don't realize but troubles of northeast Indians can indirectly be chalked up to the partition. It's several things really if you consider it like a snowball rolling down a hill gathering more snow. Partition leads to economic disruption and devastation of entire eastern India and Kolkata which used to be the major metropolis in the area stops being able to provide the services associated with being the large urban center to a region. Everything from poor villagers sending young men to the near city gets disrupted now that someone in Tripura has to go all the way to Delhi or Bangalore instead of Kolkata or Dhaka, or elderly looking for quality hospitals, or youth looking for quality universities etc. I'm not chalking everything up to partition either (there is no excuse for crappy governance), but saying it is a factor in the fact that it even necessitates an unnaturally larger number of northeasterners to be found all the way up in Delhi or in Bengaluru or Mumbai or Hyderabad. When numbers of "others" grow the chances of racial identity formation and racist encounters grow.

    On a different thread we had been discussing this whole who looks non Indian and I posted a Kashmiri Muslim guy that just evokes similar racial feeling of that person being an outsider, at least to a center east Indian like myself. But to a Punjabi and other nw-erly population members on here, they didn't see what I saw.

    Ultimately perceptions and numbers matter as I mentioned with northeast example. Kashmiri Muslims, if they are going to be in any major Indian cities, they'll be there in Delhi or Chandigarh. Chances of them finding their way down to Kolkata or Hyderabad in large numbers is less. And in places like Delhi and Chandigarh they remain protected from being perceived as too much of an outsider. Outsider insider dynamics change the way any situation on the street can turn. It can be the difference between an argument with the auto rickshaw driver over change from staying verbal or getting to fists. And most people have racial biases whether they admit to it or not. It can also mean the difference between the passersby stepping in to prevent an atrocity or standing around playing it safe.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to redifflal For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (07-20-2018),  Sapporo (07-21-2018)

  5. #23
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,518
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Assamese
    Nationality
    Indian
    Y-DNA
    R1a1
    mtDNA
    M13'46'61

    India China Tajikistan Mongolia Russian Federation Papua New Guinea
    Quote Originally Posted by redifflal View Post
    We have our regional biases when it comes to judging what we think characterizes the overall Indian subcontinent range in looks. I recognize my own being Indian Bengali or I guess center-east which I plot genetically as well as physically. Up till few years ago, there was incredible racism going on in urban metropolitan areas across "mainland" India against northeast Indians. But as a Bengali I didn't find why or how someone from Assam or Manipur or Meghalaya could be called as Chinese by anyone in India. We also have real ethnic Han Chinese in Kolkata so the differences and nuances are veasily visible to us. Even concept of there being a so called mainland India and a separate northeast is ahistorical because the whole "chicken neck" area like that like maybe 20km across near northern end of West Bengal connecting rest of India to Assam is only a chicken neck due to the partition of India. There is no geographical feature (which would have implications in population continuity across as well as population density) in the middle of the chicken neck separating so called mainland from northeast. In a way people don't realize but troubles of northeast Indians can indirectly be chalked up to the partition. It's several things really if you consider it like a snowball rolling down a hill gathering more snow. Partition leads to economic disruption and devastation of entire eastern India and Kolkata which used to be the major metropolis in the area stops being able to provide the services associated with being the large urban center to a region. Everything from poor villagers sending young men to the near city gets disrupted now that someone in Tripura has to go all the way to Delhi or Bangalore instead of Kolkata or Dhaka, or elderly looking for quality hospitals, or youth looking for quality universities etc. I'm not chalking everything up to partition either (there is no excuse for crappy governance), but saying it is a factor in the fact that it even necessitates an unnaturally larger number of northeasterners to be found all the way up in Delhi or in Bengaluru or Mumbai or Hyderabad. When numbers of "others" grow the chances of racial identity formation and racist encounters grow.

    On a different thread we had been discussing this whole who looks non Indian and I posted a Kashmiri Muslim guy that just evokes similar racial feeling of that person being an outsider, at least to a center east Indian like myself. But to a Punjabi and other nw-erly population members on here, they didn't see what I saw.

    Ultimately perceptions and numbers matter as I mentioned with northeast example. Kashmiri Muslims, if they are going to be in any major Indian cities, they'll be there in Delhi or Chandigarh. Chances of them finding their way down to Kolkata or Hyderabad in large numbers is less. And in places like Delhi and Chandigarh they remain protected from being perceived as too much of an outsider. Outsider insider dynamics change the way any situation on the street can turn. It can be the difference between an argument with the auto rickshaw driver over change from staying verbal or getting to fists. And most people have racial biases whether they admit to it or not. It can also mean the difference between the passersby stepping in to prevent an atrocity or standing around playing it safe.
    I have been called 'bahadur', 'nepali', 'chinky' etc. I am mistaken for Japanese of all people when I am on my own in Gurgaon, which does have a large Japanese community. However, even in Bangkok I am mistaken some time for Japanese if they realise I am not Thai. Anyways I was in Mongolia on work and my taxi driver even after telling him refused to believe I was from India and insisted I was from Indonesia. Only place in the world I have faced discrimination on the basis of how I look is India even though I have travelled and lived in Europe and Asia extensively
    Last edited by jortita; 07-20-2018 at 03:31 AM.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to jortita For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (07-20-2018),  khanabadoshi (07-21-2018),  pnb123 (07-23-2018),  poi (07-20-2018),  redifflal (07-20-2018)

  7. #24
    Banned
    Posts
    442
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Bengali
    Y-DNA
    R2A2 (R-P267)
    mtDNA
    M52A

    Quote Originally Posted by jortita View Post
    I have been called 'bahadur', 'nepali', 'chinky' etc. I am mistaken for Japanese of all people when I am on my own in Gurgaon, which does have a large Japanese community. However, even in Bangkok I am mistaken some time for Japanese if they realise I am not Thai. Anyways I was in Mongolia on work and my taxi driver even after telling him refused to believe I was from India and insisted I was from Indonesia. Only place in the world I have faced discrimination on the basis of how I look is India even though I have travelled and lived in Europe and Asia extensively
    This would not happen in Kolkata. My humblest apologies for these experiences.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to redifflal For This Useful Post:

     jortita (07-20-2018)

  9. #25
    Banned
    Posts
    3,063
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    L1a1
    mtDNA
    M30

    Quote Originally Posted by redifflal View Post
    This would not happen in Kolkata. My humblest apologies for these experiences.
    what about discrimination against South Indians - soz Poi for derailing the thread

    Lungi walla, madrassi, idlli chutney, kala etc

    Shit is real fam.. South Asia, its wild out here

  10. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to bmoney For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (07-23-2018),  kush (09-06-2018),  parasar (07-22-2018),  pnb123 (07-23-2018),  poi (07-22-2018),  Sapporo (07-21-2018)

  11. #26
    Registered Users
    Posts
    6,090

    Quote Originally Posted by jortita View Post
    I have been called 'bahadur', 'nepali', 'chinky' etc. ...
    Bahadur was I think a positive attribute, like sirdar (leader) for Sikhs.
    In the north normally there was sense of respect for Gorkhas, Sikhs, and Pathans. In Bihar we had lots of Chinese* too (nearly all gone), referred to as chini, never chinky (which looks to be a borrowed influence).

    Madrasi, which term bmoney mentioned, was used for southern Indians but not necessarily in a negative fashion.

    *Edit: "now only six such families practice in Patna"https://www.outlookindia.com/magazin...d-pages/209809
    Last edited by parasar; 07-23-2018 at 12:49 AM.

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (07-23-2018),  Jatt1 (07-23-2018),  pnb123 (07-23-2018),  poi (07-23-2018),  prashantvaidwan (07-23-2018)

  13. #27
    Global Moderator
    Posts
    3,243
    Sex
    Location
    Chicago
    Ethnicity
    Baloch Kashmiri Uzbek Kho
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA
    R-Y17491 > R-YP4858
    mtDNA
    A8a

    Pakistan United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Bahadur was I think a positive attribute, like sirdar (leader) for Sikhs.
    In the north normally there was sense of respect for Gorkhas, Sikhs, and Pathans. In Bihar we had lots of Chinese* too (nearly all gone), referred to as chini, never chinky (which looks to be a borrowed influence).

    Madrasi, which term bmoney mentioned, was used for southern Indians but not necessarily in a negative fashion.

    *Edit: "now only six such families practice in Patna"https://www.outlookindia.com/magazin...d-pages/209809
    Bahadur means "brave" and wouldn't Madrasi just mean one from Madras? Maybe they used sarcastically to imply negative connotation?
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to khanabadoshi For This Useful Post:

     Jatt1 (07-23-2018),  pnb123 (07-23-2018)

  15. #28
    Registered Users
    Posts
    525
    Ethnicity
    Brahmin (mixed)
    Nationality
    Indian
    Y-DNA
    R-1A (Z-93)
    mtDNA
    M-30

    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    Bahadur means "brave" and wouldn't Madrasi just mean one from Madras? Maybe they used sarcastically to imply negative connotation?
    Anyone from the South=Madras.
    And Madras... means a very stereotypical look.

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 26284729292 For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (07-23-2018),  khanabadoshi (07-23-2018),  pnb123 (07-23-2018)

  17. #29
    Banned
    Posts
    3,063
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    L1a1
    mtDNA
    M30

    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    Bahadur means "brave" and wouldn't Madrasi just mean one from Madras? Maybe they used sarcastically to imply negative connotation?
    Bahadur is used to refer to East Asian shifted Nepalis, who make up a significant proportion of the labour force in Delhi doing work like housekeeping, nightwatchman, security etc.

    I'm not sure why it came to be this way, maybe something Gurkha related.

    But the insult is that its not used to convey the words actual meaning, but just to stereotype based on looks. Indian-looking Nepalis for example will never be called Bahadur, so its racial.

    Madrasi is used derogatorily to refer to Dravidians and their customs. Its not commonly used but can be used as an 'othering' type of insult.

    Again South Indians who pass as North Indians will not generally cop it but stereotypically identifiable South Indians have a higher chance of being insulted this way.

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to bmoney For This Useful Post:

     26284729292 (07-23-2018),  khanabadoshi (07-23-2018),  pnb123 (07-23-2018),  poi (07-23-2018),  Sapporo (07-23-2018)

  19. #30
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,518
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Assamese
    Nationality
    Indian
    Y-DNA
    R1a1
    mtDNA
    M13'46'61

    India China Tajikistan Mongolia Russian Federation Papua New Guinea
    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    Bahadur is used to refer to East Asian shifted Nepalis, who make up a significant proportion of the labour force in Delhi doing work like housekeeping, nightwatchman, security etc.

    I'm not sure why it came to be this way, maybe something Gurkha related.

    But the insult is that its not used to convey the words actual meaning, but just to stereotype based on looks. Indian-looking Nepalis for example will never be called Bahadur, so its racial.

    Madrasi is used derogatorily to refer to Dravidians and their customs. Its not commonly used but can be used as an 'othering' type of insult.

    Again South Indians who pass as North Indians will not generally cop it but stereotypically identifiable South Indians have a higher chance of being insulted this way.
    Absolutely, once when I was travelling by local bus in Delhi and requested somebody to give me way, he insulted me and called me bahadur before literally throwing me out of the bus. This was when i was studying in Delhi University

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jortita For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (07-23-2018),  khanabadoshi (07-23-2018),  pnb123 (07-23-2018)

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3915
    Last Post: Yesterday, 08:20 PM
  2. Replies: 84
    Last Post: 01-17-2019, 11:50 PM
  3. Central and South Asian DNA Paper
    By Principe in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 813
    Last Post: 10-12-2018, 05:29 PM
  4. West Asian and South Asian is GEDMatch?
    By howie345 in forum General
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-20-2018, 04:52 PM
  5. In what world is Afghanistan Central or South Asian?
    By MyAnthropologies in forum Pashto
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-17-2016, 08:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •