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Thread: চেহারাمنهنचेहराముఖంمخமுகம்چہرہਚਿਹਰਾ

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    If the kashmiri dude is mixed with chechan, then a good chunk of my family is mixed with slavs.

    Some PJL samples cluster with bengaladeshi SC and even tamils. And they have autro-munda like influence in them. The SC population look like their genetics mostly, in my village I've confused one for Bihari migrant worker. Build depends a lot on nutrition as well and NW has generally been more wealthy in comparison to rest of south asia, hence people were able to grow to their full potential.

    Non punjabi people in Pakistan has this stereotype of Punjabis for being short and very dark. Pashtun forums compare us to Onge or Tamils. It's because the diversity is way stronger in Punjab Pakistan, SC like groups converted more to Islam and Christianity and went with Pakistan during partition. So the non punjabi people there are used to seeing those kinds of Punjabi, and developed this stereotype. They only lose their mind when they see someone like me and sapporo or our families. They say we don't look punjabi but in India this is the first thing we're guessed. My family fits straight from Punjab to afghanistan to pseudo east european blonde. And even if they're not a majority, there are people like them all over Punjab (Lehnda and Charhda Punjab).

    And the most non south asian pops like Haryana jatt look like baniyas or Pan Indians. While Kohistani who contributed to exotic looks of kashmiris, score like 25-30 SI with decent east asian, look like pashtuns or pseudo west asian.

    Now based on muhajirs I met here in Canada, I can easily say they can overlap with my Nairs or bengali friends easily in terms of looks. We've this stereotype in our mind where we associate certain look with certain region, and then lose mind when someone non stereotypical shows up.
    That's a lie repeated by Indians on these forums, not sure why you take afghan trolling literally. Check out Bhatinda samples, these will be similar to PJL ones in terms of diversity.

    this is composition of punjab muslims castes. Though people who really standout in terms of looks tend to be chuhras/mussalis.



    Check out videos posted by passion that's how punjab muslims look, obviously nothing out of ordinary in south asia but same is the case when one see Indian punjab videos.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by redifflal View Post
    Midi bro you wouldn't stand out among Gujjus. I just spent 2 weeks in Mumbai, first time visiting western India. You wouldn't stand out in that city at all. Besides Pakistan borders Gujarat, sure you'd have no issue "passing" in nearby Sindh and maybe Punjab and Rajasthan although I think I'd associate you from a first glance with Gujarat/Sindh.
    Among Gujjus, I know many people that look much more differently. I think among West Indians, I may even be easily classified as Gujju at first glance as well.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza View Post
    My issue with this conversation is that everyone is coming at it from their own personal experience (and dare I say agenda), and therefore arguing probably different points.

    There is a difference between passing in a region versus being typical for that region. There is more diversity in some regions than other regions. There is the issue of self identification with certain ethnicities, whether they're recognised as native or not. There is a difference in the perspectives of outsiders from either side of the phenotype range. And perhaps more importantly, the lack of strict correlation between genotype vs phenotype on an individual level.

    If you want to prove you look atypical for your region, or that your group are different to other groups in the region, or that we're all the same in the subcontinent... Its not going to be difficult to argue that case as some evidence to support your claims will be there.

    Frankly, we don't have very good autosomal representation of most of the subcontinent's 1.5 billion people, there is probably a discordance / cherry picking of photos and personal experience to suit one's claim when we haven't sample the natural variation within a population, and frankly... We like to stereotype.

    Tongue in cheek, but I propose everyone starts off with their one line agendas first.

    Makes it easier to sift through the conversation and work out what you're trying to say.

    Rant over.
    My agenda:

    -Genotype correlates with phenotype frequency at the group level and not at the individual level
    -Most of us forum South Asians and those sampled, lets be real, are non-Tribals and not from SC/ST backgrounds. We are somewhat unrepresentative of the mean of our regions

    To give an idea of the size of the unrepresented communities, heres something I found in wiki (India):


    Caste Percentage of Poverty No. of People
    FC 12.5% 49.1M
    OBC 20.7% 108.5M
    SC 29.4% 73.8M
    ST 43.0% 46.4M
    Last edited by bmoney; 07-17-2018 at 01:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redifflal View Post

    ^^^ This pic above might as well be a Muslim village anywhere from east UP to Bangladesh with a white guy thrown in the middle lol. But that, my friends, is even as far northwest as Kashmir, the average complexion and features of the local population. And so yes, if Majid Khan were to go travel 100kms south to visit Agra, he would be challenged _1941152g.jpg[/IMG]
    If you asked me to guess location I would say hindko, AJK and Murree/Attock folk in extreme north west punjab because there tend to be overlap between them and Kashmiris. I would never guess UP or even generic punjabis in 1 place. Because half of them in that picture look like stereotypical kashmiris.
    Last edited by bol_nat; 07-17-2018 at 01:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bol_nat View Post
    If you asked me to guess location I would say hindko, AJK and Murree/Attock folk in extreme north west punjab because there tend to be overlap between them and Kashmiris. I would never guess UP or even generic punjabis in 1 place. Because half of them in that picture look like stereotypical kashmiris.
    i will also guess the pic from Abbotabad or Mansehra

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    If the kashmiri dude is mixed with chechan, then a good chunk of my family is mixed with slavs.

    Some PJL samples cluster with bengaladeshi SC and even tamils. And they have autro-munda like influence in them. The SC population look like their genetics mostly, in my village I've confused one for Bihari migrant worker. Build depends a lot on nutrition as well and NW has generally been more wealthy in comparison to rest of south asia, hence people were able to grow to their full potential.

    Non punjabi people in Pakistan has this stereotype of Punjabis for being short and very dark. Pashtun forums compare us to Onge or Tamils. It's because the diversity is way stronger in Punjab Pakistan, SC like groups converted more to Islam and Christianity and went with Pakistan during partition. So the non punjabi people there are used to seeing those kinds of Punjabi, and developed this stereotype. They only lose their mind when they see someone like me and sapporo or our families. They say we don't look punjabi but in India this is the first thing we're guessed. My family fits straight from Punjab to afghanistan to pseudo east european blonde. And even if they're not a majority, there are people like them all over Punjab (Lehnda and Charhda Punjab).
    And the most non south asian pops like Haryana jatt look like baniyas or Pan Indians. While Kohistani who contributed to exotic looks of kashmiris, score like 25-30 SI with decent east asian, look like pashtuns or pseudo west asian.

    Now based on muhajirs I met here in Canada, I can easily say they can overlap with my Nairs or bengali friends easily in terms of looks. We've this stereotype in our mind where we associate certain look with certain region, and then lose mind when someone non stereotypical shows up.
    All these faces are normal in Punjab. All these pictures are from a restaurant in Multan. Now some I assume to be Jatt, Rajput, Pashtun, Syed, etc... However, I view all as local.
     














    No one would bat an eye to any of these faces in Punjab. Now based on my knowledge of faces in the region I have some assumptions on who is Jatt or Rajput or Gujjar or Baloch or Pashtun, etc... and I have a strong assumption about who in these pictures speaks Punjabi and who speaks Saraiki. Either way I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong, and I'm sure many people on this forum from India fit within the variation here. I think passion or bol_nat or kakiasumi would agree all these faces are fairly normal in Punjab. I would consider all to be "typical" -- even though they look different from each other and some look more Southern Punjabi than Northern, they are still all inconspicuous in a city of Punjab in Pakistan. A lot of the Punjab looks like the 3 guys in the 1st picture --- they are Chaudhary -- and they are one of the looks I would associate with a Jatt in Pakistan; this is probably where one of the stereotypes comes from. However, my main stereotype of a typical Jatt in southern Punjab is the group in the last picture. Also, the group of guys in the 3rd to last picture (5th) are Jatt in my opinion. 2nd picture is my stereotype of a Rajputs in Southern Punjab. 3rd picture is my stereotype of Gujjars in Southern Punjab, but I wouldn't surprised if they are Jatt. 3rd guy in 4th picture I'm pretty sure is Gujjar -- even though he looks very different, I would also assume the 1st guy is Gujjar. However, he and middle guy are hard to guess except that I assume both to be Multani city bois. I assume all people in that picture are Shi'a. Everyone in the 6th is my stereotype of Saraiki Pashtuns, maybe 1 or 2 are Rajput or mixed with.
    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 07-17-2018 at 03:12 PM.
    Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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    I have no agenda, was just answering one person's query which was "what is average Indian skin tone" and I think my usage of "average" was misguided. Then this fell into a whole phenotype discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    All these faces are normal in Punjab. All these pictures are from a restaurant in Multan. Now some I assume to be Jatt, Rajput, Pashtun, Syed, etc... However, all I view all as local.

    [edited quote to not take up thread space]
    thats what I have been saying , yes there are many people who look distinctively Punjabi(and they are bulk) but there is enough diversity that most South Asians can pass among them.

    here are videos from central Bazaar in Multan


    Last edited by passion; 07-17-2018 at 02:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midichlorian View Post
    I have no agenda, was just answering one person's query which was "what is average Indian skin tone" and I think my usage of "average" was misguided. Then this fell into a whole phenotype discussion.
    Whoops, I thought we were in the thread that was made for that... just realized this is the GIH/PJL thread.
    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 07-17-2018 at 03:24 PM.
    Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    All these faces are normal in Punjab. All these pictures are from a restaurant in Multan. Now some I assume to be Jatt, Rajput, Pashtun, Syed, etc... However, all I view all as local.


    No one would bat an eye to any of these faces in Punjab. Now based on my knowledge of faces in the region I have some assumptions on who is Jatt or Rajput or Gujjar or Baloch or Pashtun, etc... and I have a strong assumption about who in these pictures speaks Punjabi and who speaks Saraiki. Either way I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong, and I'm sure many people on this forum from India fit within the variation here. I think passion or bol_nat or kakiasumi would agree all these faces are fairly normal in Punjab. I would consider all to be "typical" -- even though they look different from each other and some look more Southern Punjabi than Northern, they are still all inconspicuous in a city of Punjab in Pakistan. A lot of the Punjab looks like the 3 guys in the 1st picture --- they are Chaudhary -- and they are one of the looks I would associate with a Jatt in Pakistan; this is probably where one of the stereotypes comes from. However, my main stereotype of a typical Jatt in southern Punjab is the group in the last picture. Also, the group of guys in the 3rd to last picture (5th) are Jatt in my opinion. 2nd picture is my stereotype of a Rajputs in Southern Punjab. 3rd picture is my stereotype of Gujjars in Southern Punjab, but I wouldn't surprised if they are Jatt. 3rd guy in 4th picture I'm pretty sure is Gujjar -- even though he looks very different, I would also assume the 1st guy is Gujjar. However, he and middle guy are hard to guess except that I assume both to be Multani city bois. I assume all people in that picture are Shi'a. Everyone in the 6th is my stereotype of Saraiki Pashtuns, maybe 1 or 2 are Rajput or mixed with.
    I am not an expert on Punabi faces but I can differentiate between Punjabi and Pashtoon. In these pictures all look Punjabis except the 6th one who look Pashtoon.

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