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Thread: Y-111 results came in, pretty underwhelming

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital_noise View Post
    Anyways, I dont want to blindly throw money at this so before they get another cent out of me I need to figure this out a bit more.
    Here is a link to my "basics of genetic genealogy": http://www.milaminvirginia.com/genetics.html Using the illustration for my family you can better understand the difference between STR testing (Y111 type testing) and SNP testing. STR results are best for "matching". SNP testing is defining the branch of the human genetic tree you are on in terms of haplogroup details. You need to ask yourself: what do I want to know? If you really want to know the details of your branch of the human genetic tree, then it is going to cost you several hundred dollars - there is no doubt about that. The more you want to know (e. g. the further down your genetic branch you want to go); the more money it will cost.

    Even if you order the BIG Y analysis today, the results will give you some letters and numbers - but the result is only definitive for this moment in time. Five years from now, thousands more will have BIG Y tested and thousands more SNPs will have been discovered and your results will change - new letters and numbers even further down your genetic branch. However, FTDNA does update BIG Y results as new SNPs are discovered. If you are young, I would say wait five years and see where matters stand - they will be MUCH different than today. This science is evolving rapidly and the cost may come down!

    If you want to know as much as possible today, it will cost you. How badly do you want to know the details of your branch of the human genetic tree? In any case, you should join the FTDNA E-M35 project and your surname project! Then you can contact the administrators of these project for better advice.
    Last edited by Celt_??; 07-20-2018 at 10:10 AM.
    FTDNA Big-Y SNP Results: R1b-U152+, L2+, Z367+, Z384+, L20+, CTS9733+, S10068+

    Milam / Mileham / Milum Y-DNA Surname Project
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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital_noise View Post
    The upgrade price is $449. Honestly, Im a bit disappointed with how this was offered and presented. The onus is on me to educate myself prior to purchase but the fact that a free online tool provided deeper analysis than this is pretty lame. These $39 snp packs are like micro-transactions but cost $39...

    Anyways, I dont want to blindly throw money at this so before they get another cent out of me I need to figure this out a bit more.
    It is always best to research before you buy, in this case by talking to other punters. But part of the fault lies with the lab and this claim:

    "What is a Haplogroup?

    Every male individual who takes one of our Y-DNA tests will also receive their Y-DNA haplogroup."

    There are two problems with this. One is that it confuses customers as its a separate test. Most newbies won't get this and think that an STR test has given them a haplogroup. The other problem is that the haplogroup assignment you get bundled in with their STR tests is high level and can often be useless. If you already did the 23andMe (v5) you will already have a half decent haplogroup - you could refine it all the way with a YSEQ test without going via STRs if your main interest is a fully detailed or 'terminal' haplogroup.
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
    WGS (Full Genomes Nov 2015, YSEQ Feb 2019, Dante Mar 2019, FGC-10X Linked Reads Apr 2019, Dante-Nanopore May 2019) - further WGS tests pending ;-)
    Ancestry GCs: Scots in central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland; English in Yorkshire & Pennines
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  5. #13
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    "YSEQ test" means buying / testing individual SNP tests by this company (not FTDNA): http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=42468

    But then you must know enough about Y-DNA testing to know exactly which SNP to order and in what sequence.
    JMHO, but I don't believe that this is a possible or reasonable route for a novice.
    Last edited by Celt_??; 07-20-2018 at 01:55 PM.
    FTDNA Big-Y SNP Results: R1b-U152+, L2+, Z367+, Z384+, L20+, CTS9733+, S10068+

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    Hold the phone. OP, do you have any matches at 111 markers? 67 markers? If so, how close (i.e., what genetic distance) and what are their terminal haplogroups?

    The trick is to use their terminal haplogroups to get a sense of where you are. If you join your most relevant project, they can do this pretty basic research for you, but it helps to do this yourself. That way you learn how it works and understand what you're trying to achieve with any additional test you buy.

    Kudos to you for getting the 111 marker test. It's worth it.

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by theImmortal View Post
    Hold the phone. OP, do you have any matches at 111 markers? 67 markers? If so, how close (i.e., what genetic distance) and what are their terminal haplogroups?

    The trick is to use their terminal haplogroups to get a sense of where you are. If you join your most relevant project, they can do this pretty basic research for you, but it helps to do this yourself. That way you learn how it works and understand what you're trying to achieve with any additional test you buy.

    Kudos to you for getting the 111 marker test. It's worth it.
    none at 111. None at 67. None at 37, None at 25. I have 4 at 12, genetic distance 1. Only 1 did Big Y, terminal snp is FGC11451. The other has a terminal snp of CTS5856.

  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital_noise View Post
    none at 111. None at 67. None at 37, None at 25. I have 4 at 12, genetic distance 1. Only 1 did Big Y, terminal snp is FGC11451. The other has a terminal snp of CTS5856.
    Sorry man, thatís rough.

    Join the E-V13 project, put all of the project data into a spreadsheet, and see if you can figure out anything else. Sometimes you can have a weird mutation that throws off the matching algorithm. FTDNA tries to normalize its results, but they canít account for everything.

    Do a full sequence test when the timing suits you. For now, you know thereís no one in the system to whom you match within any meaningful time frame.

  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celt_?? View Post
    "YSEQ test" means buying / testing individual SNP tests by this company (not FTDNA): http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=42468

    But then you must know enough about Y-DNA testing to know exactly which SNP to order and in what sequence.
    JMHO, but I don't believe that this is a possible or reasonable route for a novice.
    Anyone can find a detailed (NGS level) terminal haplogroup at YSEQ, even with no prior test or knowledge, just by using their 'Top level orientation panel'.

    https://www.yseq.net/product_info.ph...ducts_id=56898

    That would guarantee a useful answer to the OP's question whereas the Y111 sadly hasn't, and costs more.
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
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  11. #18
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    so let me ask this. I did the E-V13 SNP pack. Should be done in September. Will this possibly provide more matches than what the base Y-111 provided?

  12. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital_noise View Post
    so let me ask this. I did the E-V13 SNP pack. Should be done in September. Will this possibly provide more matches than what the base Y-111 provided?
    There isn't a separate matching system at ft for SNPs (unless you do the BigY). At the moment all you can do is manually/visually scan your STR matches and pick out those who match your new terminal SNP. Your match totals as reported under the STR levels will NOT change as a result of the SNP pack.
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
    WGS (Full Genomes Nov 2015, YSEQ Feb 2019, Dante Mar 2019, FGC-10X Linked Reads Apr 2019, Dante-Nanopore May 2019) - further WGS tests pending ;-)
    Ancestry GCs: Scots in central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland; English in Yorkshire & Pennines
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  13. #20
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    Once you get your SNP pack returned, only a Big Y500 test is your last option. But with no YSTR matches, it will be a very old branch. What you really need to do prior the the Big Y500 is to "build your genetic cluster" so you have data to work with. There are three sources to work with: 1) if you get any matches in the future at 37 or more markers, get them to upgrade to more markers (67 or 111); 2) if your oldest proven ancestor was born in the 1700s AND you have a pretty robust genealogy, get a different son or grandson of your oldest proven ancestor to test at 67 markers first (these sons or grandsons need to be born in the early 1800s at the latest in order to provide much YDNA information); 3) From your genealogical research, if you find another line that you believe is related to your line but it still remains somewhat speculative, encourage/sponsor him to test at 37 markers (and if related closely upgrade to 67 or 111 markers).

    Haplogroup E is pretty rare for UK and Irish testers. HG E are the survivors the R1b invasion that replaced most of the Europeans that first settled Europe again after the last major ice age but are only around five percent of the population at the most. Or you could be African American which are not well tested. In either case, your progress will be much slower as less than five percent of the American testers are HG E. So "building your cluster" - getting more YSTR testers that match you - is key to making progress. You can either be passive and wait for others to test or proactive and encourage/sponsor your somewhat closer relatives to test.

    If you have no matches at 37/67/111, any kind of YSNP testing is really an investment in the future. A Big Y500 test will eventually create one or more branches of mankind in the future - but only after your distant cousins test. I was the first NGS tester under R-L226 and had 55 private YSNPs to test - but we had around 100 testers that known to be L226 (which is around 1,500 years old). Five years later, we now know of 1,000 testers at 37 or more markers, have conducted 130 Big Y500 tests, 100 L226 specific SNP packs, 200 YSNPs tested at YSEQ, have 1,200 YSNPs associated with L226 to test, have 86 branches under L226 (25 % are genealogical YSNPs) AND can chart 90 % of the 700 testers at 67 or more markers. But until your database of distant cousins get tested - you are investing in the future by being on the leading edge testing of your part of the tree of mankind.
    Last edited by RobertCasey; 08-22-2018 at 04:52 PM.

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