Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 4121314
Results 131 to 134 of 134

Thread: Nibelung Global 25

  1. #131
    Registered Users
    Posts
    295
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Arab
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-y15222
    mtDNA (M)
    L1b2a

    Target: Nibelung_scaled
    Distance: 3.1553% / 0.03155344
    50.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
    18.4 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
    12.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
    12.4 AnatoliaHG_noWHGnoCHG
    6.0 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
    0.2 Iberomaurusian
    I ran you with simulated samples
    Distance: 3.4018% / 0.03401794
    Target: sambar
    31.4 Early_European_Farmer
    22.6 Iberomaurusian
    20.2 Early_Levantine_Farmer
    11.3 Africa_Mesolithic
    8.2 Iran_Neolithic
    6.3 Steppe_Pastoralist

    Distance: 1.3659% / 0.01365938
    64.2 Berber
    22.2 Southern_Levant
    10.0 WestAfrican_Yoruba
    2.4 Levantine
    0.8 Cushitic
    0.4 Basque_Spanish

  2. #132
    Registered Users
    Posts
    518
    Sex
    Location
    NYC
    Ethnicity
    Semi-Synthetic Scandi
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-Z1936 (Z1927)
    mtDNA (M)
    H1h
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z56 (Y60904)
    mtDNA (P)
    French, I think

    Norway United Kingdom Germany Italy Ethiopia
    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    Do you know where in Sweden your paternal ancestor was from?
    We have a number of relatively near Swedish, Danish and Norwegian cousins through my maternal grandfather Edwin Bennett, grandson of this Edwin Bennett (article's a mess). Trouble is we have very limited information about the families in Maryland involved, Webb and Day, besides them both coincidentally appearing in Baltimore and on the Eastern Shore. On the Derbyshire/Staffordshire side only the names Webster, Beresford and Patrick are further preserved but that still doesn't suggest any Scandis recently wandering the region. Someone who was a mixture of Swedish and Danish or Norwegian or both got to either the Webbs or Days. We may in addition have separate Danish relations and certainly do Dutch ones possibly through my grandmother.

    Dalarna appears as a region in Sweden. Not certain that's it though because of the way matches include wherever. Also I obviously have many, many Swedish relations through the Finns but we're able to separate them from the others with my mother's and her brother's kits.

    I forgot at first to check about the percentages shared with our matches and it doesn't look like this Swedish+Danish/Norwegian individual on my mother's side should be realistically further away than a gg-grandparent of hers, so I should be about 3% this Scandinavian individual. Baltimore was very German at the time, probably more so than English, and it would appear a Scandi or a few made it there too.

    The full confidence matches at MyHeritage are Stang, Olofsson, Asplund, and Blomberg, all probably at no more than 4th cousin distance from my mother. We have a Dane and a Norwegian each at the same distance as three of the Swedes, namely 0.7%, whereas the Stang's at 0.8%. 3rd cousins share on average 0.78%, range is 0.3% to 2.0%. 4th cousins share between 0.07% and 0.5% so I don't see how that really works but MyHeritage is just being cautious saying "3rd to 5th" even though the stable percentages we're getting would seem to say these are obviously my mother's 3rd cousins. Another full confidence Norwegian at 0.4% is probably a 4th cousin.

    At Family Tree DNA we have a myriad of relations mirroring the combination Swedish+Danish/Norwegian for this ggg-grandparent of mine. Shared matches however hint the Danish relations could be separate or that we have two sets of them. We have a Dutch relation at MyHeritage at 0.8% who confuses things too and I haven't been able to determine yet at Family Tree DNA which maternal grandparent of mine gives us our Dutch relations, who actually may also exist in two sets.
    Last edited by Nibelung; 10-29-2020 at 12:52 PM.
    Scandinavian-love structure

    recent and recently discovered Swedish, Danish and Norwegian (many 4th/5th cousins)
    recent East/North German
    Anglo-Saxon from recent rural English (Derbyshire/Staffordshire) with possible trace Danish
    1/16 Bronze Age Swedish from Finland/Karelia
    medieval Norwegian and Danish via Ireland (possibly surviving structure)
    other English and German (regions unknown)
    other NW to NE European

    closest modern Sweden2
    closest ancient Sigtuna vik84001

  3. #133
    Registered Users
    Posts
    518
    Sex
    Location
    NYC
    Ethnicity
    Semi-Synthetic Scandi
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-Z1936 (Z1927)
    mtDNA (M)
    H1h
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z56 (Y60904)
    mtDNA (P)
    French, I think

    Norway United Kingdom Germany Italy Ethiopia
    Quote Originally Posted by maroco View Post
    Target: Nibelung_scaled
    Distance: 3.1553% / 0.03155344
    50.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
    18.4 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
    12.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
    12.4 AnatoliaHG_noWHGnoCHG
    6.0 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
    0.2 Iberomaurusian
    I ran you with simulated samples
    Hi there. Thanks. I suppose Europeans should be assumed to have some Natufian related admixture because most of our Y-DNA Haplogroup E derives from a prehistoric migration from the Afro-Asiatic direction and should probably be called Para- or Proto-Natufian. (J is of importance in various waves too and describable as Para-Caucasus, Para-Etruscan, Para-Minoan and probably Sumerian and of course Para-Semitic which it shares with E.) As far as my own additional East Asian this calc is giving me 2% too much steppe and that itself includes more East Asian than most moderns have, but it's fascinating to see how all the other components work. I guess people will continue to fight over directions and proportions between Anatolia and the Afro-Asiatic world. Waiting for the eventual explosion over who we get from Gobekli Tepe too.
    Scandinavian-love structure

    recent and recently discovered Swedish, Danish and Norwegian (many 4th/5th cousins)
    recent East/North German
    Anglo-Saxon from recent rural English (Derbyshire/Staffordshire) with possible trace Danish
    1/16 Bronze Age Swedish from Finland/Karelia
    medieval Norwegian and Danish via Ireland (possibly surviving structure)
    other English and German (regions unknown)
    other NW to NE European

    closest modern Sweden2
    closest ancient Sigtuna vik84001

  4. #134
    Registered Users
    Posts
    518
    Sex
    Location
    NYC
    Ethnicity
    Semi-Synthetic Scandi
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-Z1936 (Z1927)
    mtDNA (M)
    H1h
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z56 (Y60904)
    mtDNA (P)
    French, I think

    Norway United Kingdom Germany Italy Ethiopia
    Genuinely interested and well intentioned people may reply. I'm here to make a note for myself and the audience about the various Sino-Uralic groups in northeastern Europe about whom there is question as far as identity. Let's start with the so-called Veps/Ves'/Vepsians/Vepsa. I've narrowed "them" down to only six meanings and counting.

    1. The Ves' of the Russian Primary Chronicle
    2. The Vepsians, often "Old Vepsians" referred to in archaeological literature
    3. The Vepsian language
    4. Modern people still identifying as Vepsian
    5. A certain clade or two of Z1928 geneticists identify as "Vepsian"
    6. People to the south of the Karelians the Karelians referred to as "Vepsian"

    As far as the Vepsian language it is believed to be one node slightly nearer to Karelian than either are to Finnish. That said Karelian and Finnish obviously share some things they do not with Vepsian, which has also experienced extensive Russian influence. Y-DNA wise apparently it is N-B195 under Z1928 which is called Vepsian by Ilumae. What I do not know is if they, the modern still self-indentifying Vepsians, also have any other Z1936. They do have some of the very furthest west L666. As far as medieval identity, in Novgorod they only mention the Karelians in the region as far as anyone potentially Vepsian and likewise the Bjarmians of Scandinavian fame are assumed named Karelians. To the people of Novgorod the Chudes, at least the early ones, are considered Estonians, but their later Chudes appear to be a more eastern group. Now the Ves' of the Primary Chronicle no doubt include some of the people later known as Karelians and by extension the Bjarmians already known to the Scandinavians. The Chudes of the Primary Chronicle may include some of the people later known as Karelians too, as has apparently periodically been argued, but complicating matters is that there appears the suggestion among linguists that both the Karelians and the Vepsians could have absorbed some of the Chudes based on lingustic evidence.

    Thus it is regardless not possible the Veps as they approach the modern era could be something monolithic. In the Novgorod First Chronicle the trouble is even gone to to distinguish the Izhorians from their close Karelian relations. Where are the Veps? Could it be that their mention in the Primary Chronicle gets them excluded from Novgorod mention? That seems like a strange idea if they weren't hostile. However, it's possible many of the people later known to us as Veps did not participate in the Novgorod-Karelian colonization of the Northern Dvina and White Sea region, or in the Karelian colonization of what we now know as Karelia and a part of Finland. Thus the Veps to the later Karelians would be "those who did not" and remained where they were, but that doesn't mean they weren't still involved in the Para-Novgorod world somehow.

    A thought I've had is that the people later known to us as Veps didn't experience as much of the influence from or interaction with Häme as those later known as Karelians, missing some fusional processes on that side and instead experiencing more with the Russians although the Karelians were the principal allies from that direction involved in foreign policy and trade.

    Perhaps the Veps were a more southward extension of the Z1928 world which had enough of a separate identity to not feel close enough to the White Sea region anymore even if some of them did later move slightly northwards but no further than the other lake. If we assume a relatively close relation to the Bjarmalanders for the Karelians then essentially they already had adventured far northwest before Novgorod even really existed, or least quite independently of any policy Novgorod would have later. Bjarmaland appears to have had an extensive relationship with Norway perhaps beginning as soon as Ottar's voyage, possibly before. That said, archaeologically some trade has probably been demonstrated with the Veps too for the Bjarmalanders but specialists are still tending to weigh in towards a closer ethnic relationship with the Karelians.

    Returning to language and population, I've just read too that so-called Livvic and Ludian are really dialects of Karelian adopted by former Vepsian speakers, and also somewhat recently. How many modern Karelian speakers would actually be Vepsians then? Do we have any idea what their clades and autosomes look like?
    Last edited by Nibelung; 11-24-2020 at 07:10 PM.
    Scandinavian-love structure

    recent and recently discovered Swedish, Danish and Norwegian (many 4th/5th cousins)
    recent East/North German
    Anglo-Saxon from recent rural English (Derbyshire/Staffordshire) with possible trace Danish
    1/16 Bronze Age Swedish from Finland/Karelia
    medieval Norwegian and Danish via Ireland (possibly surviving structure)
    other English and German (regions unknown)
    other NW to NE European

    closest modern Sweden2
    closest ancient Sigtuna vik84001

Page 14 of 14 FirstFirst ... 4121314

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •