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Thread: A deeper think about beakers in Britain and R1b DNA "from the West"

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    You have access to a copy of it Bernard in my library. It was obtained by Richard Rocca from the Ramos-Luis 2009 team and posted on the now defunct DNAForums.
    Thanks Jean! I get it.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    I have a question - when the Ramos-Luis data was initially presented, most of French ancestry were adamant that the lack of R1b in central France was due to the testing of more recent immigrants with French last names. Could it be that the central areas of France, which received less Bell Beaker influences than the coastal areas, retained more Neolithic Y-DNA groups?
    From Ramos-Luis the R1b results are the following: 56% for Île de France, 56% for Provence-Alpes Côte d'Azur, 62% for Nord-Pas de Calais, 81% for Bretagne, 60% for Midi-Pyrénées, 59% for Alsace and 53% for Auvergne. I am not sure that the lack of R1b in Auvergne is really significant due to the small numbers of samples in this study: between 45 and 115 per region.

  3. #153
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    The most obvious prove of recent populations in Ramos-Luis study is the line E*(xE1b1b1) which is a Sub-Saharian paragroup

    10,99% IDF Ile De France Paris North-Centre France
    0% PAA Provence-Côte d'Azur Marseille/Nice South-East France
    1,47% NPC Nord-Pas de Calais Lille/Boulogne North France
    0% BRT Bretagne Nantes/Rennes/Brest Brittany West France
    1,49% MPY Midi-Pyrénées Toulouse South-West France
    0% ALS Alsace Strasbourg East France
    2,25% AUV Auvergne Clermont-Ferrant South-Centre France

  4. #154
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    I must admit I have generally thought the lower R1b in central France is it being remote from the main beaker concentrations which seem to lie all around the edge of France.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    I must admit I have generally thought the lower R1b in central France is it being remote from the main beaker concentrations which seem to lie all around the edge of France.
    That is also reinforced if we add to the Ramos-Luis data the higher levels of R1b found by Myres in SE France in the Rhone Valley.

    By the way, the same R1b prevalence in BB areas is also observed in the Italian Peninsula.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  6. #156
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    The Eupedia site gives also the Y-DNA distribution for France and confirms that Auvergne is the region where the frequency of R1b is the lowest:
    Eupedia_France_YDNA.jpeg
    Interestingly, it is also Auvergne that is the region where the frequency of G is the highest. So we can conclude that neolithic G people resist better in Auvergne than in other region as Richard told in a previous post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    The Eupedia site gives also the Y-DNA distribution for France and confirms that Auvergne is the region where the frequency of R1b is the lowest:
    Eupedia_France_YDNA.jpeg
    Interestingly, it is also Auvergne that is the region where the frequency of G is the highest. So we can conclude that neolithic G people resist better in Auvergne than in other region as Richard told in a previous post.
    Would love to see those regional R1b figures broken down to show U106 vs P312.

  8. #158
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    However, there are exceptions to the beaker-p312 peak correlation. In Iberia it is not a great fit in that R1b peaks in the south-east and Basque areas which while the early beakers are concentrated in Portugal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    That is also reinforced if we add to the Ramos-Luis data the higher levels of R1b found by Myres in SE France in the Rhone Valley.

    By the way, the same R1b prevalence in BB areas is also observed in the Italian Peninsula.

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