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Thread: Predicted Haplogroup R-M269 - Hardly any matches

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Yeah, you won't feel right unless you have a dna test pending someplace.

    I have a second cousin with a SNP test pending, some I'm in fair shape for now.
    I just bought two autosomal tests - one for my aunt and one for my grandfather, as well as waiting for my fiance's results! I can't rest unless I'm researching something or getting results.

    I just had a thought actually, one of my 60/67 matches is R-BY2848, which is downstream of L21>DF13, so I imagine that my cousin is almost certainly L21. I suppose he just has an odd clade, because he doesn't seem to fit that easily into a classification.
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     rms2 (07-27-2018)

  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Yeah, you won't feel right unless you have a dna test pending someplace.

    I have a second cousin with a SNP test pending, so I'm in fair shape for now.
    I meant to ask, do you know anything about Robert Casey's R-L21 SNP Predictor? I put my cousin's STR values in, and it gave a 0% probability of testing positive for all of the SNPs.
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  4. #13
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    No, he'd have to speak on that subject.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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     Ais (07-27-2018)

  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    No, he'd have to speak on that subject.
    I've been playing around with it, and the tool seems to be broken. It's putting in false numbers, which will be why it's coming up with strange results!
    DNA Tribes
    Me
    92.1% European, 3.2% South Asian, 2.9% North African & Middle Eastern, 0.9% Siberian, 0.6% Amerindian, 0.2% Sub-Saharan African

    My mother
    95% European, 2.9% North African & Middle Eastern, 2.1% Amerindian

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     rms2 (07-27-2018)

  8. #15
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    I think it's really tough to predict a terminal SNP based on str's because R1b-M269 and especially P312 had a sudden expansion in the Early Bronze Age.

    Oh, and 67 markers aren't near enough.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     Ais (07-27-2018)

  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I think it's really tough to predict a terminal SNP based on str's because R1b-M269 and especially P312 had a sudden expansion in the Early Bronze Age.

    Oh, and 67 markers aren't near enough.
    Yeah, you won't get a terminal SNP from 67 markers, but I thought you might be able to confirm L21 from them. I imagine it likely is, but I wanted to check the tool to see what it said.
    DNA Tribes
    Me
    92.1% European, 3.2% South Asian, 2.9% North African & Middle Eastern, 0.9% Siberian, 0.6% Amerindian, 0.2% Sub-Saharan African

    My mother
    95% European, 2.9% North African & Middle Eastern, 2.1% Amerindian

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Ais For This Useful Post:

     rms2 (07-27-2018)

  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ais View Post
    Yeah, you won't get a terminal SNP from 67 markers, but I thought you might be able to confirm L21 from them. I imagine it likely is, but I wanted to check the tool to see what it said.
    Yeah, if his ancestry is British or Irish, L21 is likely, but there's enough doubt to make things uncomfortable and to help boost FTDNA's bottom line.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     Ais (07-27-2018)

  14. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Yeah, if his ancestry is British or Irish, L21 is likely, but there's enough doubt to make things uncomfortable and to help boost FTDNA's bottom line.
    The interesting thing is, his paternal line is completely unknown. His grandfather, my great great grandfather, was illegitimate, and was born in a very ethnically diverse area. There was no way to know where that line came from. However, a fair few of the matches he does have seem to have paternal ancestry from Ireland (although like I said, they're all very distant relations).
    Last edited by Ais; 07-28-2018 at 12:15 AM.
    DNA Tribes
    Me
    92.1% European, 3.2% South Asian, 2.9% North African & Middle Eastern, 0.9% Siberian, 0.6% Amerindian, 0.2% Sub-Saharan African

    My mother
    95% European, 2.9% North African & Middle Eastern, 2.1% Amerindian

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     rms2 (07-28-2018)

  16. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ais View Post
    Not really sure what you're replying to, I didn't ask about the surname of R-M269.
    Ah, whoops.
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  17. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ais View Post
    I got the results of my cousins 67 marker test, and considering the predicted haplogroup is R-M269, I was surprised he doesn't have more matches. For example, he only has 7 12 marker matches, 4 of which are GD=1.

    The ones I'm particularly interested in are his 67 marker matches, of which he has 3, all with a GD=7. I'm wondering how close they are likely to be. None of them share a surname with each other - one is McMullen, one is Farley, and one is Cohen - which makes me wonder if these matches are pre-surnames. I'm not sure how distant a GD of 7 would be.

    I'm also curious if there's any way to narrow down the subclade from the STR values? One of the 67 marker matches has his terminal SNP, but considering the genetic distance, I don't know that my cousin would have the same subclade.
    I am aware of a number of R-M269 individuals who have no matches above 25 markers, so it isn't all that unusual. It depends on many markers you have that are unusual, or off-modal, within the R-M269 haplogroup.

    Since STR markers mutate at a random rather than than at a set rate, and some markers mutate much more frequently than others, one can only speak of broad probabilities when trying to calculate generational distance based solely on genetic distance. This is indicated by the TIP function on FTDNA's matches. However as a general rule, I would expect the connection between people with a GD of 7 at 67 markers to likely pre-date the adoption of surnames.

    Also it has been thoroughly established (this was first discovered years ago by Dr. Ken Nordtvedt) that at least some M269 subclades have a very strong STR signature, and can reliably be predicted from off-modal marker values. A few examples would be L238 and S27900, though there are many more. My own subclade (FGC864) has six off-modal markers, and those who have them are virtually guaranteed to be within that subclade.

    Ysearch was extremely helpful in looking for these STR signatures, but sadly it is now defunct.
    Last edited by GoldenHind; 07-28-2018 at 06:09 AM.

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     Ais (07-28-2018),  palamede (08-04-2018),  rms2 (07-28-2018)

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