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Thread: Regions missing

  1. #1
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    Regions missing

    On some of our matches the ethnicity regions aren't showing, is that a new option not to show regions? It's odd that some come up and others don't.
    Ethnogene: 51.4% NW European, 21.6% W European, 10.1% Southeastern African, 9.5% Southeast Asian, 4.4% South Asian, 2% Scandinavian, 1% East African
    Papertrail @ 3xggrandparents: 31.25% London, 21.875% Dorset, 18.75% Mauritius, 6.25% Netherlands, 6.25% China 6.25% Hampshire 6.25% Buckinghamshire 3.125% Somerset

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFWinstone View Post
    On some of our matches the ethnicity regions aren't showing, is that a new option not to show regions? It's odd that some come up and others don't.
    Yes, there is an option under settings, Ethnicity Profile Display, which when unchecked, keeps some of your ethnicities hidden from your matches.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Exosuits For This Useful Post:

     JFWinstone (08-01-2018),  td120 (08-01-2018)

  4. #3
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    That's unfortunate. I think it would be much better to allow folks to either conceal all or reveal all -- not anything in between. One reason is that different ancestries can be related to one another in ways that Ancestry doesn't always admit to, at least not clearly. You have to "look behind the curtain", as it were.

    Take Europe West and Great Britain, for example. If you look past whatever percentage you might have for one or the other, or for each, you'll find that -- in Ancestry's own words -- Europe West is


    • Primarily located in: Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein
    • Also found in: England, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Czech Republic


    While Great Britain is

    • Primarily located in: England, Scotland, Wales
    • Also found in: Ireland, France, Germany, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Italy


    Do you see how these two ancestries clearly have some overlap?

    Now for me, my Europe West score is 44% and my Great Britain score is only 25%. However, the range for my Europe West is from 15-73%, and my range for Great Britain is 0-53%.
    Ancestry would have me believe that just because different runs of the same analysis -- using somewhat different divisions of the genome into blocks of various sizes on each run -- yielded a certain average, that average is the right score.

    How do we actually know that? And would the scores be different if they ran the test 100 times instead? Likely they would, even if not much. Some "trace" ancestries might possibly disappear, and new ones might appear in their place.

    In fact, though, there is actually only one truly "correct" division. That would be whichever one corresponded to the actual segments you received from the ancestors who passed on whatever ancestries you have. Of course, Ancestry can't know what division this would be, so they make 40 "guesses". For any given ancestry, the one closest to being correct is not necessarily the one closest to the "average" of the 40 runs.

    My point, though, is that it might be very useful to know what other ancestries a match inherited besides the ones you have in common. Back before the present iteration of FTDNA's MyOrigins, FTDNA picked "Native American" as one of my 2nd brother's three ancestries. They did not pick "Native American" as one of my ancestries, but they did pick "East Asian".

    However, since they only allowed you to "sort" your relatives by ones that you share, my brother could sort by percentage of "Native American", while I could not. Actually, I couldn't even sort by "East Asian", because you could only sort by an ancestry in your top three. "East Asian" was my fourth of four.

    In the current iteration of MyOrigins, both my brother and I have a similar percentage of "Native American". It isn't much, just a "trace" 2%. But it's the same thing for both of us -- not one thing for him and another thing for me. Well, actually I've now picked up less than 1% "Southeast Asia", which I frankly don't believe. I do have documented Native American ancestry, however. It's unfortunate that FTDNA is also not willing to present ancestries by segments, not just as percentages.

    But it's tougher to do it by segments, because then you know that relatives can see whether or not the shared segments of close relatives actually line up with the predicted ancestries or not. And that might also be one reason Ancestry doesn't want to provide a chromosome browser. Not just to protect client privacy, but to reduce the opportunity to crosscheck their accuracy.

    EDIT

    I'm not sure I spelled out the point of the Europe West versus Great Britain comparison as I might have. However, it should be clear that when Great Britain was at its highest -- 73% -- Europe West could also not have been at its highest -- 53%. It wasn't necessarily at its lowest -- 0% -- though it could have been.

    If you add the current scores of 44% and 25%, the sum is actually only 69%. That allows for all other ancestries combined to be 31%. If the entirety of Europe West was sometimes subsumed by Great Britain, then there would be 27% left for "everything else".

    My point is, it seems likely to me that on many runs (if not all), when one of these two was higher, the other was lower. Of course, these are not the only two regions that overlap. But because the overlap exists at all, it's unreasonable to only show ancestries that two people share. Ancestry cannot actually guarantee that their percentages -- and that is, after all, why they do 40 different runs. They hope that this will allow them to be closer.

    I'm not convinced that this is always the case.
    Last edited by geebee; 08-09-2018 at 03:16 AM.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

  5. #4
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    It appears that Ancestry also no longer does something it used to do. It's possible, over the course of the 40 runs, that you'll get a non-zero score in an ancestry that doesn't have a final score. Let's say, for example, that you only received a positive score of 1 or 2% on one or two runs. Otherwise, you received 0 for that ancestry. Then Ancestry would not show that ancestry at all, either with a score or a range. However, they did show it when you clicked on "show all ancestries". Not any more.

    By the way, just as some regions show overlap on Ancestry's maps, it may be equally worth noting where there are blank places that aren't part of a region. Take Asia Central, for example. Looking at Ancestry's map -- rather than just at the "primarily found in" statement, the region includes at least parts of Georgia, Armenia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Kazahkhstan. On the southeast of the region, it overlaps with Asia South. Asia South, in turn, overlaps on the west with Asia East.

    But what happens on the north of Asia Central? There doesn't seem to be anything to overlap with. How about to the northeast, near where the Altai mountains lie? Again, there doesn't seem to be anything. Part of the Altai region might show as Asia East; but might part of it actually manifest as Asia Central?

    Obviously, lots of people who are mostly European will show a small amount of Asia Central (especially Russians, perhaps). But how about with people who show virtually no Finland/Northwest Russia? Given that one of the homes of the ancestors of Native Americans may have been the Altai region, is it possible that Central Asia and Native American could be somewhat linked, with one going a little higher as the other goes a little lower?

    How can we know, unless we would ever get to see the results for each individual run out of the 40. Instead, we just get the range and the final average -- we don't know how each ancestry moved with respect to others.
    Last edited by geebee; 08-09-2018 at 03:44 AM.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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