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Thread: Weird Eastern DNA

  1. #1
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    Weird Eastern DNA

    Perhaps someone could help me decipher this mystery in my mother's autosomal DNA. As far as we are aware, my mother is an Irish-German mix. Most of her German ancestry is from the Rhineland except her maternal great grandmother whose parents were both from Prussia (surnames Greib for the man and Kahl for the woman.) I suspect this Prussian, who we've only traced to the 1830s, may be the source of some of the strange Eastern DNA that appears in various tests.

    To give some examples:

    AncestryDNA: Finland/Northwest Russia 2%, Europe East 1%, Asia South <1%

    DNALand: Northeast European 11% (North Slavic 7.9%, Finnish 3.5%), Siberian 1.3%

    Eurogenes K15: Eastern Euro 15.49, South Asian 1.39, Siberian 0.73

    Eurogenes K36: Eastern Euro 6.63, Fennoscandian 8.60, South Central Asian 0.28, Volga-Ural 4.04

    Dodecad K47: South Caucasian 1.08%, North Caucasian 3.46%, Volgan 4.37%, East Euro 6.84%, West Finnic 7.81%, Uralic 0.53%, Pamirian 1.63%

    When I've plugged these strange element alone into various calculators, some of the Oracle results have been : Mari, Chuvash, Vepsian, Karelian, Komi, Mordvin, Urdmurt, etc. along with just pointing to Russia.

    So does it seem I have distant Russian ancestry, perhaps some Russian with a Finnic/Volgan element to their makeup?

  2. #2
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    My dad's ancestry includes a lot of Germans from Saxony, Prussia, Poland, Silesia, and Bohemia, and he scores a lot of East Euro, Baltic & Fennoscandian, but doesn't usually score much on South Asian.

    Dad's scores:

    AncestryDNA: Europe East 33%, Finland/Northwest Russia 6%, Scandinavia 3%

    DNA.Land: North Slavic 31%

    Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15: Eastern Euro 10.48, Baltic 18.28

    Eurogenes K36: Eastern Euro 5.51, East Central Euro 14.40, Central Euro 8.81, Fennoscandian 10.02, North Caucasian 0.88

    LukaszM's K47: North Caucasian 0.02%, East Euro 18.08%, Volgan 0.01%, West Finnic 3.93%, Scando-Germanic 10.44%, Baltic 10.39%, Pamirian 0.24%

    No known Russian or Finnic ancestors, but could be some ancient connection centuries back.

    My mom, on the other hand, with her Colonial American (British Isles, Dutch, German, French, Swiss), Czech, and West German ancestry, is the one who's usually more likely to score a small percentage of South Asian and/or South Central Asian.

    Mom's Asian, Caucasian & Volga scores:

    AncestryDNA: <1% Middle East

    Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15: West Asian 1.51, South Asian 2.49

    Eurogenes K36: South Central Asian 1.37, Volga-Ural 0.89

    LukaszM's K47: North Caucasian 2.30%, South Indian 0.49%, Volgan 0.37%, NW Indian 0.01%, Iranian 1.57%, Pamirian 1.08%

    Though, somehow, on DNA.Land and K47, Mom scores higher Finnish than Dad, even though Dad's the one that has it on his AncestryDNA report. Mom gets 4.9% Finnish on DNA.Land (none for Dad) and 6.94% West Finnic on K47.


    Though, your mother does score a fair bit more Volga-Ural than either of my parents, so maybe...
    Last edited by PoxVoldius; 08-04-2018 at 04:59 AM.
    Ancestry paper trail tally: 21.1% Colonial American (British Isles, German, Dutch, Swiss, French), 14.1% not traced past 19th Century United States (MD, NJ, NY, PA, VA), 7.8% Canadian (Ontario & Quebec), 40.6% German, 15.6% Czech, 0.8% British & Irish

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     Gwydion (08-04-2018)

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    Perhaps someone could help me decipher this mystery in my mother's autosomal DNA. As far as we are aware, my mother is an Irish-German mix. Most of her German ancestry is from the Rhineland except her maternal great grandmother whose parents were both from Prussia (surnames Greib for the man and Kahl for the woman.) I suspect this Prussian, who we've only traced to the 1830s, may be the source of some of the strange Eastern DNA that appears in various tests.

    To give some examples:

    AncestryDNA: Finland/Northwest Russia 2%, Europe East 1%, Asia South <1%

    DNALand: Northeast European 11% (North Slavic 7.9%, Finnish 3.5%), Siberian 1.3%

    Eurogenes K15: Eastern Euro 15.49, South Asian 1.39, Siberian 0.73

    Eurogenes K36: Eastern Euro 6.63, Fennoscandian 8.60, South Central Asian 0.28, Volga-Ural 4.04

    LukaszM K47: South Caucasian 1.08%, North Caucasian 3.46%, Volgan 4.37%, East Euro 6.84%, West Finnic 7.81%, Uralic 0.53%, Pamirian 1.63%

    When I've plugged these strange element alone into various calculators, some of the Oracle results have been : Mari, Chuvash, Vepsian, Karelian, Komi, Mordvin, Urdmurt, etc. along with just pointing to Russia.

    So does it seem I have distant Russian ancestry, perhaps some Russian with a Finnic/Volgan element to their makeup?
    For me it could be Prussian legacy. To be specific from the north east where strong Baltic (Lithuanian) influences were visible (till 1945). Or great-great-grandpfather was even Baltic German with some Estonian blood. I think it is even more probable considering above results.
    Last edited by lukaszM; 08-04-2018 at 09:07 AM.

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  6. #4
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    Apologies on mislabeling the K47 test.

    Well I thought that the Baltic/Slavic elements of Prussia may be able to account for this as well, but the Volgan scores and other more minor Asiatic scores threw me off. Also found it strange that her East Euro score in Eurogenes K15 was 15.49 with only one Prussian great-grandparent, which doesn't seem to far behind the Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, etc. averages on the spreadsheet.

    Hopefully I will be able to uncover more via genealogy, but certainly found these scores surprising.

  7. #5
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    My father's ancestors all emigrated from southerly German towns to the USA in the late 19th century. He has some unexpected eastern admixture, too. He does match some persons directly with Jewish and Russian ancestry. I expect eventually to uncover the source(s) through genealogy research. Here is an example of my working on this with Eurogenes G25 and nMonte: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post376086
    Last edited by randwulf; 08-04-2018 at 02:20 PM.

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     Gwydion (08-04-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by randwulf View Post
    My father's ancestors all emigrated from southerly German towns to the USAin the late 19th century. He has some unexpected eastern admixture, too. He does match some persons directly with Jewish and Russian ancestry. I expect eventually to uncover the source(s) through genealogy research. Here is an example of my working on this with Eurogenes G25 and nMonte: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post376086
    Maybe in your case it is emigration of some Polish Jew or Russian Jew to Germany in XIX century and then he/she was Germanized?

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     randwulf (08-04-2018)

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    Contemplating the issue, I forgot an interesting detail...it seems my Prussian ancestors were Catholic. Reading on wiki came across:

    After 1814, Prussia contained millions of Roman Catholics in the west and in the east. There were substantial populations in the Rhineland, parts of Westphalia, eastern parts of Silesia, West Prussia, Ermland and the Province of Posen.[52] Communities in Poland were often ethnically Polish, although this is not the case of eastern Silesia as the majority of Catholics there were German.

    I wonder if it is possible that my ancestor could have been a Pole? Could Greib be a Germanization of any Polish surname? Or perhaps due to being Catholic may have married in with Poles?

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     Eihwaz (08-04-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    Contemplating the issue, I forgot an interesting detail...it seems my Prussian ancestors were Catholic. Reading on wiki came across:

    After 1814, Prussia contained millions of Roman Catholics in the west and in the east. There were substantial populations in the Rhineland, parts of Westphalia, eastern parts of Silesia, West Prussia, Ermland and the Province of Posen.[52] Communities in Poland were often ethnically Polish, although this is not the case of eastern Silesia as the majority of Catholics there were German.

    I wonder if it is possible that my ancestor could have been a Pole? Could Greib be a Germanization of any Polish surname? Or perhaps due to being Catholic may have married in with Poles?
    My German ancestors were also Catholic, and their earliest living descendents are also showing up with elevated East Euro affinity (towards Ukrainians, in particular). Lukasz's theory for your great-great grandparent sounds interesting.
    Last edited by Eihwaz; 08-04-2018 at 02:43 PM.
    1 Jew_Ashkenazy_Poland +Volga-German Custom:AGUser_Eihwaz 1.7783 85.83 14.17

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    Catholic alone wouldn't explain it, as tons of German Catholics came around 1848 and the 1850s from areas in western Germany (as well as other places). The specific areas of Germany would matter more.

    Anyway, my mom gets similar kinds of results, Gwydion, and I've wondered about it too.

    K13: West_Asian 7.33; East_Med 6.19; South_Asian 2.56
    K15: Eastern_Euro 10.6; West_Asian 5.18; East_Med 2.94; South_Asian 2.35

    I don't think it necessarily means anything -- she gets pretty low distance for North German and half North, half West, both of which make total sense given her background, but those specific eastern-pointing components at those levels aren't really explained in her background, which so far as I know is half British Isles and one quarter Swedish, one quarter German.

    I don't know a lot about the German side, as it's basically 1700s immigrants, but the one family I've traced back is from the Rhineland, not too far from where Bonn is (the Rhineland-Palatinate being a common source for immigrants at the time I've tended to assume the others were from the same area, but haven't done the work, so some could be from farther east).

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