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Thread: U152 STRs, matches, genetic distance, clusters, conversion, etc.

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    199
    Sex
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-U152>A274>A275
    mtDNA (M)
    H1k1

    Netherlands Netherlands Limburg Netherlands Noord-Brabant

    U152 STRs, matches, genetic distance, clusters, conversion, etc.

    FTDNA shows me 5 exact matches at 12 markers, 3 two step matches at 25 markers, and 0 matches at 37 and 67 markers.

    I have always considered these matches a result of conversion, especially as they didn't show up at Ysearch.

    Recently I found out that one of these matches is a 30/37 match, the differences are at the faster changing markers. I haven't contacted this match because a google search showed me he passed away in 2012. He is part of a surname project.

    He might not be a close match, but if he is U152+ he would definitely be my closest U152+ match.

    What are your thoughts about this? The Ysearch IDs for both haplotypes are: KGRJ3, QCUZR
    Avatar:
    Roman helmet, gilded silver, 319-323 A.D. Made by Marcus Titus Lunamis. Found in 1910, Helenaveen, The Netherlands.
    Its owner belonged to the sixth cavalry unit of the Equites Stablesiani. On the right side of the helmet cap it says ‘Stablesia VI'.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by mafe View Post
    FTDNA shows me 5 exact matches at 12 markers, 3 two step matches at 25 markers, and 0 matches at 37 and 67 markers.

    I have always considered these matches a result of conversion, especially as they didn't show up at Ysearch.

    Recently I found out that one of these matches is a 30/37 match, the differences are at the faster changing markers. I haven't contacted this match because a google search showed me he passed away in 2012. He is part of a surname project.

    He might not be a close match, but if he is U152+ he would definitely be my closest U152+ match.

    What are your thoughts about this? The Ysearch IDs for both haplotypes are: KGRJ3, QCUZR
    I think that KGRJ3 and QCUZR are closely related, and, further, also to HS8HH and others. The comparison with HS8HH may let you understand which mutations you had after the separation.
    There are same rare mutations like DYS463=22, DYS572=10, probably you all had from ancient times DYS19=15 etc.
    Probably DYS393=14 from 13, DYS392=14 from 13, DYS437=14 from 15, H4=10 from 11 etc. are recent mutations.

    I didn't discard these matches on 12 markers, seen these rare values:
    D3KU8 Watts USA
    14 24 15 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 14 29
    PH3GG Ames Unknown
    14 24 15 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 14 29
    X3C2C Watts Unknown
    14 24 15 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 14 29
    Last edited by Rathna; 10-24-2013 at 03:53 PM.

  3. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    615
    Sex
    Location
    East Manchester
    Ethnicity
    European
    Nationality
    Euromutt
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152: A9024/BY3644
    mtDNA (M)
    H1c3b 'Helga'

    England Wales Scotland Ireland European Union
    One of my 60 of 67 is in fact 30 of 37!

    Wear, ysearch D8E7S. Common ancestor said to be 1,000-1,100 AD based on STRs


    Quote Originally Posted by mafe View Post
    FTDNA shows me 5 exact matches at 12 markers, 3 two step matches at 25 markers, and 0 matches at 37 and 67 markers.

    I have always considered these matches a result of conversion, especially as they didn't show up at Ysearch.

    Recently I found out that one of these matches is a 30/37 match, the differences are at the faster changing markers. I haven't contacted this match because a google search showed me he passed away in 2012. He is part of a surname project.

    He might not be a close match, but if he is U152+ he would definitely be my closest U152+ match.

    What are your thoughts about this? The Ysearch IDs for both haplotypes are: KGRJ3, QCUZR

  4. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    199
    Sex
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-U152>A274>A275
    mtDNA (M)
    H1k1

    Netherlands Netherlands Limburg Netherlands Noord-Brabant
    @Rathna,

    HS8HH is confirmed L2> Z49> Z142 (L594-). KGRJ3 is confirmed U152*.

    Ames is a two step match at 25 markers and doesn't show up at 37, unfortunately Ysearch only shows 12 markers.


    @Solothurn,

    I'm jealous of your 1066 cluster! haha. I wonder if there is a way to test him for U152. Maybe the project admin. has access to his account.
    Avatar:
    Roman helmet, gilded silver, 319-323 A.D. Made by Marcus Titus Lunamis. Found in 1910, Helenaveen, The Netherlands.
    Its owner belonged to the sixth cavalry unit of the Equites Stablesiani. On the right side of the helmet cap it says ‘Stablesia VI'.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mafe View Post
    @Rathna,

    HS8HH is confirmed L2> Z49> Z142 (L594-). KGRJ3 is confirmed U152*.

    Ames is a two step match at 25 markers and doesn't show up at 37, unfortunately Ysearch only shows 12 markers.
    Of course the mutations between KGRJ3 and HS8HH didn't happen in a few days and R-L2 has descended sometime from A R-U152*. Also KGRJ3 will have its SNPs. Of course KGRJ3 is an outlier for its mutations.

  6. #6
    This is the distribution of this haplotype to-day. Exclude those who are DYS438=10, who are R1a:

    3 15 13 29 24 11 14 14 11,14 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 SRY10831.2 R-SRY10831.2 (Aliases: R-M448, R-M459, R-M516; YCC: R1a1) >>
    1 15 13 29 24 11 14 14 11,14 10 10 14 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 SRY10831.2 R-SRY10831.2 (Aliases: R-M448, R-M459, R-M516; YCC: R1a1) >>
    1 15 13 29 24 11 14 14 11,14 12 13 15 19 16 16 23 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 SRY10831
    1 of 216 Alicante, Spain [Spanish] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
    1 of 84 Pardubice, Czech Republic [Czech] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
    1 of 145 Riga, Latvia [Latvian] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
    1 of 305 Lviv, Ukraine [Ukrainian] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
    1 of 50 Limburg, Netherlands [Dutch] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe

  7. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    376
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Northern Europe
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-FGC5301 or R-A197
    mtDNA (M)
    T1a1

    United States of America Scotland England North of England Norway England
    Slightly off topic, but I always wonder if the STR test marker could be better ordered in sequence so there could be a lower cost smaller set either in general or optimized for U-152? It would confuse things to rearrange, though.

  8. #8
    Very meaningful for me is that the closer is from Alicante, Spain, and is an outlier:

    1 15 13 29 24 11 14 14 11,14 12 13 15 19 16 16 23 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 SRY1083
    1 of 216 Alicante, Spain [Spanish] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe

  9. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    199
    Sex
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-U152>A274>A275
    mtDNA (M)
    H1k1

    Netherlands Netherlands Limburg Netherlands Noord-Brabant
    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    This is the distribution of this haplotype to-day. Exclude those who are DYS438=10, who are R1a:

    3 15 13 29 24 11 14 14 11,14 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 SRY10831.2 R-SRY10831.2 (Aliases: R-M448, R-M459, R-M516; YCC: R1a1) >>
    1 15 13 29 24 11 14 14 11,14 10 10 14 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 SRY10831.2 R-SRY10831.2 (Aliases: R-M448, R-M459, R-M516; YCC: R1a1) >>
    1 15 13 29 24 11 14 14 11,14 12 13 15 19 16 16 23 12 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 SRY10831
    1 of 216 Alicante, Spain [Spanish] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
    1 of 84 Pardubice, Czech Republic [Czech] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
    1 of 145 Riga, Latvia [Latvian] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
    1 of 305 Lviv, Ukraine [Ukrainian] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe
    1 of 50 Limburg, Netherlands [Dutch] Eurasian - European - Western European Europe
    Could it be that the last one is KGRJ3 (yours truly), or is this from a database without FTDNA data?
    Avatar:
    Roman helmet, gilded silver, 319-323 A.D. Made by Marcus Titus Lunamis. Found in 1910, Helenaveen, The Netherlands.
    Its owner belonged to the sixth cavalry unit of the Equites Stablesiani. On the right side of the helmet cap it says ‘Stablesia VI'.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mafe View Post
    Could it be that the last one is KGRJ3 (yours truly), or is this from a database without FTDNA data?
    As this haplotype belongs to one Czech
    1 15 13 29 24 11 14 14 11,14 10 10 14 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 SRY10831.
    1 of 84 Pardubice, Czech Republic [Czech] Eurasian - European - Eastern European Europe

    who is the R1a1a etc., to the first haplotype belong the other three, and, as probably also the Latvian and the Ukrainian are more likely R1a than R1b, I'd say that the Dutch has an haplotype similar to KGRJ3, but it is unlikely they are the same person. He is one of the 50 people tested by
    Name Peter de Knijff, Thirsa Kraaijenbrink (YC000009)
    Address Forensic Laboratory for DNA Research
    Department of Human Genetics
    Leiden University Medical Center
    POBox 9600
    2300 RC Leiden
    The Netherlands
    Email [email protected]
    Phone +31 71 526 9540
    Fax +31 71 526 8278
    QC since 1999-02-14
    Accession Number YA002899
    Contribution 50 haplotypes
    Reference

    As this haplotype is restricted to Western Europe and is present also in Spain, and as I am the theorist of the Italian Refugium and think that R-U152 is Italian in its origin, and as Alicante is in the Region near Valencia where landed the first agriculturalists from Italy 75000 years ago, by sea, and is also one of the zones of Spain which retain the R-L51, I think born in Italy, I think to can say that this haplotype has its origin in Italy. In Belgium and the Isles may have come also carried by Roman Soldiers coming from Spain (or Italy) more than the Eastern Roman Empire. So also your avatar is satisfied.
    Last edited by Rathna; 10-25-2013 at 03:36 AM.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Rathna For This Useful Post:

     mafe (10-25-2013)

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