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Thread: Origins of J1-FGC30416

  1. #1
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    Origins of J1-FGC30416

    Hello,
    Greetings from Lebanon! I am a new member here.
    So recently I have been looking for my origins. My family, like some families, descend from the Arabs who came of Lebanon. My family went to a rural village in Lebanon, and mixed with natives there, who also converted. (I belong to Shi'ite Islam).

    My family is originally, what you would call "Sayyed", as we are descended from Musa al-Kadhim, who is descended from Ali ibn Abi Talib through his son Hussain ibn Ali. According to this project, We who are descended from Hussain bear the Haplogroup J1-FGC30416. This haplogroup was the most common according to them.

    So my question is, what is the origin of this haplogroup?! If this haplogroup seems very specific, I'd also be pleased with the haplogroup of J1-L859. Is there any way we can point out the place it originated from, possible places it migrated or how it got to Arabia?

    Thanks for everyone who read this, and who answered. I hope I am not bothersome as such questions seem repetitive!
    Thanks, again. I also have to point out my knowledge is limited in genetics. Apologies for any thing that sounded illogical or false. I am not near an expert or knowledgeable of this matter.
    Cheers!

    Note: My flags may seem somewhat weird, I've based them on historical sources/claims and family marriages. Just wanted to clear this out.
    Last edited by Lupriac; 08-12-2018 at 10:08 PM.

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  3. #2
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    I would suggest you do a quick search on this forum. You might find what you are looking for. Also hopefully some of the senior well-informed members could help you with your question.

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    FGC30416 is a subclade of FGC8701, a sub-branch of L859 which is the diagnostic marker of the Bani Hashim. The presence of this marker among Lebanese Metwalis is interesting given the fact that Lebanon isn't a tribal society, despite this they seem to have taken Sayyid status very seriously. One similar case I can recall is the Tabaja family from Kfar Tebnit (in the Nabatiyeh district), despite the ostensibly Phoenician toponym this family carries a subclade of FGC8701.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    FGC30416 is a subclade of FGC8701, a sub-branch of L859 which is the diagnostic marker of the Bani Hashim. The presence of this marker among Lebanese Metwalis is interesting given the fact that Lebanon isn't a tribal society, despite this they seem to have taken Sayyid status very seriously. One similar case I can recall is the Tabaja family from Kfar Tebnit (in the Nabatiyeh district), despite the ostensibly Phoenician toponym this family carries a subclade of FGC8701.
    Yes you are correct. We aren't a tribal society, however the "Sayyed" title of an honorific title that Muslims use (mainly Shi'ite) to refer their origins from the Prophet through Ali ibn Abi Talib (through his two sons). I can name some Sayyed families such as: al-Musawi, al-Hussaini, al-Sayyed etc... However I am not originally from these families, since my ancestor got isolated from the rest. We are a very small family and I don't feel it is good/wise to write my name on the internet, so I won't.

    Anyways, is there any place we can assume this Haplo-group/type originated from? I've read somewhere that it originated at the Levant. Yet another claim surpassed it to Mesopotamia. So do we have any knowledge of J1-L859?

    Thanks.

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    This lineage is a clade with a Jewish group (who are -L859 but +ZS2102) see here https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    Qusai ibn Kilab is said to have come from the Levant to Mecca to unite the Quraysh, maybe its a true story then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe12 View Post
    Yes you are correct. We aren't a tribal society, however the "Sayyed" title of an honorific title that Muslims use (mainly Shi'ite) to refer their origins from the Prophet through Ali ibn Abi Talib (through his two sons). I can name some Sayyed families such as: al-Musawi, al-Hussaini, al-Sayyed etc... However I am not originally from these families, since my ancestor got isolated from the rest. We are a very small family and I don't feel it is good/wise to write my name on the internet, so I won't.

    Anyways, is there any place we can assume this Haplo-group/type originated from? I've read somewhere that it originated at the Levant. Yet another claim surpassed it to Mesopotamia. So do we have any knowledge of J1-L859?

    Thanks.
    L859 probably originated in the northern parts of the Tihama while FGC8712 (immediately upstream) is likely to have originated in what is now Southern Syria and Northern Jordan.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 08-13-2018 at 10:34 PM.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    L859 probably originated in the northern parts of the Tihama while FGC8712 (immediately upstream) is likely to have originated in what is now Southern Syria and Northern Jordan.
    Is there a relation between J1-L859 and J1-FGC11?
    Is there any specific time frame?
    Sorry if that sounds foolish or uneducated, and sorry for asking too much.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Lupriac; 08-14-2018 at 07:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe12 View Post
    Is there a relation between J1-L859 and J1-FGC11? Sorry if that sounds foolish or uneducated, and sorry for asking too much.

    Thanks.
    FGC11 is a branch under L859. Btw welcome to the forum!
    Last edited by Batroun; 08-14-2018 at 07:22 PM.

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batroun View Post
    FGC11 is a branch under L859. Btw welcome to the forum!
    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe12 View Post
    Is there a relation between J1-L859 and J1-FGC11?
    Is there any specific time frame?
    Sorry if that sounds foolish or uneducated, and sorry for asking too much.

    Thanks.
    Like Batroun said, L859 is ultimately a branch of FGC11 (which is the main Arabian branch of L858).
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 08-14-2018 at 09:14 PM.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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