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Thread: On the Britons and Anglo-Saxons

  1. #211
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    Wales England Cornwall Scotland Ireland Normandie
    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I enjoyed reading it when it first came out, but Oppenheimer's book is so inaccurate, so absolutely wrong and misleading that no, it's not worth reading, not now, except by those who are forewarned and already aware of its erroneous nature and are interested only in a bit of historiography under the rubric of "Goofy Ideas That Were Once Popular".
    I don't agree. From memory, much of it was a solid and mainstream introduction to P and Q Celtic, geography, history and so on. His own unique theories are not the bulk of the work. In any case I enjoy thinking that questions my assumptions (which are obviously never completely accurate at that distance) and provides a spur to make me check those ideas and ponder more deeply. I enjoyed the book and it encouraged me to read again about early Germanic people in what is now England among other things. It's made me think in particular about whether he could possibly be right on the Belgae, for example. I've wondered about similarities between earlier Bronze Age carvings I've seen in Scandinavia and Derbyshire and have looked into it always with doubt in my mind somewhere.That was worth the price of the book alone.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    I don't agree . . .
    I definitely part company with you there, that much is true. That book is so chock full of errors that reading it without an awareness of them beforehand would actually be harmful and could set a newbie back years.

    Its chief value now is as a doorstop.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     Garimund (03-15-2019),  GoldenHind (03-16-2019)

  4. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I definitely part company with you there, that much is true. That book is so chock full of errors that reading it without an awareness of them beforehand would actually be harmful and could set a newbie back years.

    Its chief value now is as a doorstop.
    Fair enough. Don't know why I defended him when I felt he was so wrong. Guess it's just because I enjoyed it more than most books and it got me thinking about how long my Y line might have been in Britain.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to JonikW For This Useful Post:

     rms2 (03-15-2019)

  6. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Fair enough. Don't know why I defended him when I felt he was so wrong. Guess it's just because I enjoyed it more than most books and it got me thinking about how long my Y line might have been in Britain.
    Well, Oppenheimer is a talented writer. I'll give him that. The book was a good read.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     JonikW (03-16-2019)

  8. #215
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    Regarding the question between Britons and Anglo-Saxons, I guess they are basically the same, they (or we) are "muted Bell Beakers" (LN-EBA).
    From Bronze Age to nowadays the NW Bell Beakers (Single Grave heirs) blended with the previous populations consisting of HG and Neolithic Farmer.
    From Ireland to Scandinavia people the populations became a higher HG and Neolithic component compared to the Dutch/ British Beakers at a certain expense of the Steppe component.
    The more North the more the WHG gained, more southwest in NW Europe the Neolithic Farmer gained.
    Genetic drift from Iron Age until now made probably the difference between "Celts" and " Germans" but this is not a basic difference!

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     Jessie (03-20-2019),  JonikW (03-16-2019),  spruithean (03-17-2019)

  10. #216
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    Would people say this good reason to think that my mother is at least 40% Germanic (Anglo-Saxon + Viking)?

    Using K36 and G25 coordinates.
    Code:
    "fit": 1.0868,
        "English_Cornwall": 34.17,
        "England_IA": 25,
        "Swedish": 24.17,
        "Norwegian": 16.67,
        "closestDistances": [
          "English_Cornwall:HG00255: 1.754547",
          "English_Cornwall:HG00259: 2.289969",
          "English_Cornwall:HG00243: 2.314623",
          "Swedish:Sweden4: 2.435002",
          "English_Cornwall:HG00264: 2.469064",
          "English_Cornwall:HG00160: 2.534547",
          "Swedish:Sweden9: 2.549047",
          "England_IA:I0156: 2.576671",
          "Norwegian:NOR109: 2.580292",
          "Norwegian:NOR108: 2.747145",
          "English_Cornwall:HG00236: 2.783325",
          "Norwegian:NOR106: 2.796216",
          "Swedish:Sweden5: 2.802517",
          "Swedish:Sweden1: 2.829322",
          "Swedish:Sweden10: 2.874294",
          "Swedish:Sweden7: 2.920265",
          "Swedish:Sweden13: 2.926203",
          "England_IA:M1489: 2.975167",
    Code:
        "fit": 2.5846,
        "SW_England": 59.17,
        "SV_Skane": 40.83,
        "closestDistances": [
          "SW_England:average: 2.830272",
          "SV_Skane:average: 3.073091"
    Code:
        "fit": 2.5576,
        "SW_England": 54.17,
        "Denmark": 45.83,
        "closestDistances": [
          "SW_England:average: 2.830272",
          "Denmark:average: 2.927649"
    Code:
    "fit": 2.2963,
        "Mecklenburg-Vorpommern": 53.33,
        "SW_England": 40,
        "NE_England": 6.67,
        "Denmark": 0,
        "closestDistances": [
          "NE_England:average: 2.671000",
          "Mecklenburg-Vorpommern:average: 2.690689",
          "SW_England:average: 2.830272",
          "Denmark:average: 2.927649"
    Code:
    "fit": 2.2759,
        "Mecklenburg-Vorpommern": 43.33,
        "Cumbria": 38.33,
        "SW_England": 18.33,
        "closestDistances": [
          "Cumbria:average: 2.455614",
          "Mecklenburg-Vorpommern:average: 2.690689",
          "SW_England:average: 2.830272"
    Code:
        "fit": 0.9891,
        "HUN_MA_Szolad": 40.83,
        "England_IA": 30.83,
        "England_Roman": 26.67,
        "DEU_MA": 1.67,
        "closestDistances": [
          "HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ11: 2.077035",
          "England_Roman:6DT22: 2.254127",
          "England_IA:I0156: 2.576671",
          "England_Roman:6DT18: 2.695315",
          "HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ7: 2.720507",
          "HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ13: 2.757432",
          "HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ42: 2.761494",
          "HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ12: 2.854859",
          "HUN_MA_Szolad:SZ22: 2.905681",
          "England_IA:M1489: 2.975167",
    LivingDNA: 97.6% British Isles, 2.4% Scandinavia. 45.1% North Central England related.
    AncestryDNA: 53% England/Wales/NW Euro, 47% Ireland/Scotland

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