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Thread: LivingDNA Question: Germany/Denmark/Norway??

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onur Dincer View Post
    The thread has been moved from the General section to the Living DNA section.
    Thanks! I’m very new to forum posting and wasn’t sure how to do this.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltematec View Post
    I feel like itís strange that my highest is U.K., but no one in the past 300 years on my family tree has been from the U.K. on either side.
    That's just because the current LivingDNA pool is biased toward the UK, and your ancestry (Scandinavian and German) is quite similar to English ancestry. I suspect that 23andMe would give different results, for example, and that the LivingDNA will change when the German project is added.

    From what I read on the site, it says that the percentages for Autosomal donít necessarily mean that is your ancestry, but it more so tells you how much you have in common genetically with the modern populations of those countries.
    To some extent, but they try to figure out where your ancestry is from.

    If that is the case, then it would make sense that I have genetics most in common with people in the U.K., as they had been heavily invaded and populated by Germany, France, AND Scandinavia.
    Yes, there's so much overlap in NW Europe that it's hard to separate out ancestry for mixed people, but beyond that LivingDNA does seem to overstate UK ancestry for many (and understates German and Irish).

    I know that from the last few hundred years my ancestors immigrated from Germany and France almost exclusively (I found a Danish connection on my fatherís side back a few generations and the Normandy connection on my momís side). Iíve even found ship manifests of some of my specific ancestors, which was kinda cool. But my Scandinavian is higher than both French and German on LivingDNA, and also seems to be the case when I cross reference it with GEDMatch.
    LivingDNA seems to be better at picking at Scandinavian than German, so I wouldn't assume this from those results, especially if you have contrary evidence on paper.

    Gedmatch takes a little more work to decipher and you can't take the countries you get too literally. But for fun, what are your Eurogenes K13 breakdown and regular oracle results?

    Very often Gedmatch tends to more extreme comparisons, for example there are several where I get Orkney or Irish as my base, even though I have no Orkney ancestry and not that much Irish. So that it gives you a bunch of options with Scandinavian populations doesn't mean you don't really have the ancestry you see on paper (especially since German and Scandinavian are likely not that far apart, especially Northern German). This is why it's pretty impossible to sort out Anglo-Saxon and Danish (i.e., Viking) influences in England, IMO.

    When it comes down to it, the only information I really have outside of my genealogy research is the Autosomal, yDNA, and mtDNA readouts, so I guess a grain of salt is all I have to go on? Haha (at least until the technology is refined)
    Yes, absolutely.

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  5. #13
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    Oh neat. This really coincides with the info I learned about through my Geneology! (Mostly the areas of Germany/France/Denmark) I didn’t really find anyone from Netherlands or the Baltics in my geneology, but the Baltics are definitely on my LivingDNA results (As is Spain, Portugal, and Tuscany). I assume the Norway on my mom’s side is back too far to register? It does show up eventually but it’s all the way down at #17, but I do recognize some other areas that were settled by Norwegians higher on the list, like Orcadian and West Scottish. Some of it doesn’t make sense though like the south Asian and west Asian. But a lot of the stuff on this list looks familiar from LivingDNA in general. I like that the 2 population is pretty much 50/50 German/French! Haha

    Here’s the results for K13:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 45.62
    2 Baltic 19.41
    3 West_Med 15.31
    4 East_Med 12.35
    5 West_Asian 4.69
    6 South_Asian 1.35


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 West_German 6.027289
    2 South_Dutch 6.290088
    3 French 6.571717
    4 Southeast_English 9.676806
    5 Southwest_English 11.919295
    6 Orcadian 12.799432
    7 North_German 12.799870
    8 Danish 13.177041
    9 North_Dutch 13.352849
    10 Spanish_Cataluna 13.712713
    11 West_Scottish 14.033890
    12 Irish 14.051699
    13 Austrian 14.413273
    14 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 15.356370
    15 Portuguese 15.441813
    16 Spanish_Galicia 15.946730
    17 Norwegian 16.144100
    18 East_German 16.474747
    19 Spanish_Murcia 16.556217
    20 Spanish_Valencia 16.564213

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% French +50% West_German 5.024117


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Southeast_English +25% Southeast_English +25% Tuscan 3.253376


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.253376
    2 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.572678
    3 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.697532
    4 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Sicilian 3.727157
    5 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.757396
    6 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.779670
    7 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Tuscan 3.800800
    8 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Sicilian 3.839069
    9 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 3.855370
    10 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan + West_Scottish 3.856048
    11 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.919051
    12 Italian_Abruzzo + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English 3.950966
    13 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.979858
    14 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian 3.995792
    15 South_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 4.005484
    16 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan + West_German 4.026712
    17 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 4.035694
    18 North_Italian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_German 4.088874
    19 Danish + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Sicilian 4.095043
    20 North_German + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Tuscan 4.106371
    Last edited by waltematec; 08-16-2018 at 08:16 PM.

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    Excellent. That's my favorite calculator for most people of NW European background. EU v. K15 can be good too.

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    I still don’t feel like it really answers much for me, though. I still see Germany, France, Denmark, and Norway. Even Southeast England was involved with the Jutes, Saxons, and Normans.

    I know that the Swedish settled the Balkins, but Sweden doesn’t show up at all on any of this. But I have found that seems to always be the case on all the info I have collected. The only connection I would have to the Swedish would be 26% on my mtDNA and the Balkins. But it seems pretty straight forward that my Scandinavian wouldn’t come from there, at least in any impactful way.
    Last edited by waltematec; 08-16-2018 at 08:59 PM.

  10. #16
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    I suppose it kinda answers my question to some extent about my Scandinavian, as this seems to show it’s possibly both Norwegian and Danish?

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    Quote Originally Posted by waltematec View Post
    I suppose it kinda answers my question to some extent about my Scandinavian, as this seems to show itís possibly both Norwegian and Danish?
    No, what these calculators are estimating or predicting is that you may have some Scandinavian DNA, and though you may have Norwegian or Swedish ancestry because it is mixed with North German you may get placed as "Danish" or what have you, due to a more southerly pull from your North German DNA.

    In my own case my ancestry is primarily Dutch, Irish and UK, with distant French and German, however because my paternal Irish+UK mix added with my South Holland maternal grandfather and Groningen maternal grandmother I get strange Oracle results from some of those GEDmatch calculators with EuroK13 predicting me as some Southeast+Southwest English + Danish + Swedish or K15 thinks I'm just Irish.

    Basically with GEDmatch (and most tests in general) it's best to see the areas listed as broad regions, so with my own GEDmatch for example when it predicts some sort of Cornish + Southeast English + Danish + Irish or whatever mix I can go through my paper trail and look for regions where my ancestors came from quite recently. My great-grandmother was born in London, UK, to English parents of Cornish and English origins, my great-grandfather was born to a Northern Irish father and Irish mother, my maternal family is Dutch, I can see how that could be represented as Danish and my English ancestry could be quite similar to Danish too.

    These calculators, algorithms aren't entirely accurate and the field is advancing with each new study and test, it will be refined in due time.

    I remember awhile ago there were some threads linking to how we could plot ourselves on a map of the world, and I ended up right smack dab in the North Sea where Doggerland would have been.

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    For sure! I feel like the biggest issue is that the Scandinavians are very genetically similar to the Germans. They all kinda started out as the same people from what I have read, so I can definitely see how things can easily be confused. It can just be quite frustrating at the same time when looking for answers.

    As for the paper trail, I was able to compile a pretty extensive family tree online going back several generations with only a few holes or “missing branches”. But I really feel like I have learned all I can from my family tree. I’m trying to figure out what was going on in my distant ancestry, up to about 1500 years ago. For my family tree, I’ve only been able to go back like 200-300 years, so everything before that is kinda speculative.
    Last edited by waltematec; 08-16-2018 at 10:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by waltematec View Post
    I suppose it kinda answers my question to some extent about my Scandinavian, as this seems to show it’s possibly both Norwegian and Danish?
    It's showing you the many possibilities that explain your mix (including one that is French and German heavy).

    You can't do more than, really.

    I think 23andMe is one of the most accurate tests (I think LivingDNA is really accurate for people of primarily UK ancestry right now, but not beyond that). However, even with 23andMe, I get nearly 18% "Broadly NW Europe" and that's at 50% confidence. If I switch it to 90% confidence it acknowledges a lot more unknowns.

    Ancestry can't tell my English from French or Scandinavian, and FTDNA gives me 85% British Isles and 15% Eastern Europe when the reality is less British Isles but some German and Swedish where the "Baltic" or whatever that looks like EE is coming from. None of these tests are going to be able to tell you anything certain (beyond that you are mostly NW Europe or something like that).

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    I remember awhile ago there were some threads linking to how we could plot ourselves on a map of the world, and I ended up right smack dab in the North Sea where Doggerland would have been.
    I just ran that the other day, and that's exactly where I am.

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