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Thread: LivingDNA Question: Germany/Denmark/Norway??

  1. #21
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    Back to Eurogenes K13, it's useful to understand that it, like the other calculators, is pulling on a limited number of components, and many of the pools look very similar (and many mixes look similar). It's not able to identify "Danish genes" or "Norwegian genes" as there's no such thing (although there are areas where certain patterns are more common, usually overlapping other areas).

    A really helpful tool for Eurogenes K13 (and many other calculators) is the spreadsheet. You can compare results and compare them to your results, but also remember they are averages, many people unquestionably from the place in question won't be perfect averages, of course.

    My K13:

    1 North_Atlantic 45.08
    2 Baltic 25.78
    3 West_Med 12.47
    4 West_Asian 7.1
    5 East_Med 5.47

    Results (more German biased for some reason on this one):

    1 North_German 3.52 -- this might be my closest (3.52 is the distance from the average), but so far as I know I'm not really N German at all. I'm part English, which likely includes a component from there, also Welsh, Swedish, and SW German, and probably a little Irish and French. It averages to look like North German.
    2 West_German 5.03
    3 South_Dutch 5.27

    I get a much closer distance with a whole bunch of other possible combinations, but that doesn't mean any of these are ancestries I have, they are possible explanations. For example:

    1 60.5% North_German + 39.5% West_German @ 1.66
    2 94% North_German + 6% Sardinian @ 1.72 -- I'm not Sardinian at all, I think I have some Southern bits in my English and especially SW German, and note also that 6% isn't very high.

    19 72.2% Irish + 27.8% Serbian @ 2.08 -- this is way far down on the list, but note that the distance isn't all that much farther and closer than many people with this actual combination would be. And again, I'm not very Irish, if at all, and not Serbian at all. But starting with a base of Irish (pretty far west, somewhat north), a little south and east is needed to incorporate some of my other components, so this is one of many possible options.

    Now going to the spreadsheet, I'll compare Danish, SE English, N German, Norwegian, in that order:

    North Atlantic: 50/50.5/47.2/51.1
    Baltic: 26.6/23.3/27.4/28.6
    West Med: 10.4/14/10.3/9.9
    East Med: 3.6/5.1/4.2/1.7
    West Asian: 5.7/4.5/7.1/5.6

    As you can see, they are pretty close for their average numbers, someone could be one and look more like the average of the other (so lower distance) and a mix will confuse everything.

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  3. #22
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    Well, it confused me for sure! haha

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    Delete
    Last edited by timberwolf; 08-16-2018 at 11:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    I just ran that the other day, and that's exactly where I am.
    What tool was that?

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    So I did the Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle, and I definitely see what you're saying. You're saying these groupings are not specific countries, but regions. and they try to average those regions together to get an idea of what countries fall in that average?

    K15 seems very similar, BTW Germany, France, and Scandinavia... (noticeably Norwegian moved up on the list with the 3 extra components, and Swedish now shows up now as well.)
    But I kinda get what you're saying about the averages and regions now.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 32.99
    2 Atlantic 24.36
    3 West_Med 11.50
    4 Baltic 10.63
    5 East_Med 7.48
    6 West_Asian 6.26
    7 Eastern_Euro 5.36


    Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
    15 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 West_German @ 4.378148
    2 South_Dutch @ 6.574152
    3 French @ 7.741488
    4 Southwest_English @ 8.609106
    5 Southeast_English @ 9.351361
    6 North_German @ 9.708220
    7 North_Dutch @ 10.572934
    8 Danish @ 11.100850
    9 Irish @ 11.326626
    10 West_Scottish @ 11.946429
    11 Orcadian @ 12.172682
    12 Norwegian @ 13.370405
    13 East_German @ 13.838302
    14 Swedish @ 13.917213
    15 West_Norwegian @ 14.595817
    16 Spanish_Galicia @ 16.161987
    17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 16.552038
    18 Hungarian @ 16.712236
    19 North_Swedish @ 16.831854
    20 Austrian @ 16.891132

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% French +50% West_German @ 4.368559


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Orcadian +25% Tuscan +25% West_German @ 3.385992


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.154168
    2 Orcadian + Tuscan + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.213120
    3 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Tuscan + West_German @ 3.229957
    4 Irish + Tuscan + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.285484
    5 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English @ 3.315670
    6 Greek_Thessaly + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.321112
    7 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_German @ 3.357641
    8 Orcadian + Swedish + Tuscan + West_German @ 3.359070
    9 Orcadian + Orcadian + Tuscan + West_German @ 3.385992
    10 Orcadian + South_Italian + Southwest_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.387911
    11 Central_Greek + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.398504
    12 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 3.398959
    13 Southeast_English + Tuscan + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.399822
    14 Tuscan + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 3.411001
    15 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 3.416556
    16 Greek_Thessaly + Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.428854
    17 Norwegian + Orcadian + Tuscan + West_German @ 3.443481
    18 Orcadian + Orcadian + South_Italian + West_Norwegian @ 3.464891
    19 North_Dutch + Tuscan + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.469341
    20 Greek_Thessaly + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.477099
    Last edited by waltematec; 08-17-2018 at 12:18 AM.

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by timberwolf View Post
    What tool was that?
    I saw it on Eupedia when this site seemed to be down yesterday, but I recall a thread that was similar here once upon a time.

    This: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/Europe.htm

    And to plot it on a map: https://www.darrinward.com/lat-long/

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  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    I saw it on Eupedia when this site seemed to be down yesterday, but I recall a thread that was similar here once upon a time.

    This: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/Europe.htm

    And to plot it on a map: https://www.darrinward.com/lat-long/
    Thanks I seem to plot to Pembrokeshire Wales.

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  13. #28
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    My dad plots to the southern tip of the Peak District National Park, just a little east of Stoke-on-Trent.

    My mom is in the North Sea just north of the Netherlands.

    Screen Shot 2018-08-16 at 9.24.12 PM.png

    I'm in the North Sea, pretty much half way between my parents.

    Screen Shot 2018-08-16 at 9.31.37 PM.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    My dad plots to the southern tip of the Peak District National Park, just a little east of Stoke-on-Trent.

    My mom is in the North Sea just north of the Netherlands.

    Screen Shot 2018-08-16 at 9.24.12 PM.png

    I'm in the North Sea, pretty much half way between my parents.

    Screen Shot 2018-08-16 at 9.31.37 PM.png
    I feel like our parents would have similar results, considering we both landed in the North Sea. My mother's family being entirely Dutch and my father's being mostly UK+Irish (distant French and German, but I doubt it has any influence) it would make sense.

    Next I wonder how we stack up compared to the Ancient Samples similarity tool. I know Bollox79 and I had Rathlin and Hinxton4 switched, though I show a higher similarity to 6DRIF18.

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  17. #30
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    Just did this recently so was easy to find.

    I have Rathlin1 higher than Hinxton4, but like you am more similar to 6DRIF18 (86). I have two other closer ones. Guess the Poland one (#2) is from the Unetice culture.

    Overall, my top ancient samples were:

    91: 2,400 BC - Germany - I0118
    87: 1,789 BC - Poland - Rise150
    86: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF18
    85:2,000 BC - Ireland - Rathlin1
    83: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF2
    83: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF3
    82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 3DRIF16
    82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21
    82: 500 AD - Bavaria - AED 249
    81: 2,250 BC - Germany (BB ) - I0112
    80: 1,900? BC - Czeck (Unet.) - Rise577
    79: 0 BC - England - Hinxton4

    82: 200 AD - Gladiator - 6DRIF21 is an L21-DF63 YDNA like my dad, though, which was exciting since DF63 is pretty rare compared to some other subclades of L21.
    Last edited by msmarjoribanks; 08-17-2018 at 11:41 AM.

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