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Thread: Are Pathan different from the Pastuns?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by surbakhunWeesste View Post
    Google translate doesn't do a good job in pashto translation, it's crude and machine learning ain't a tea. I personally have never heard or read Pashtana to refer a group of Pashtuns until the stuff you posted, thought I am aware they use 'Pukhtana' in ares of KPK.


    This has deterred from what I asked!
    I guess everyone under British-India control from the 1700s onwards? That seems to be when the term became widespread according to the last article. I read that the Arabs often used the term Suleimani for Pashtuns and that was more widespread in use for among certain population before the British.
    Either way, it's widespread, to me it's analogous to a Mexican calling themselves Meksican as opposed to Mehicano in the US, because that's just the more widely understood term. Even the Baloch mostly use the word Pathan (or Pathana), though I've also heard Awgan (ie. Afghan). There is a 3rd word they use, but I can't recall it.
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by surbakhunWeesste View Post
    There are more than one way to end make 'something' plural, I struggle with the Y in Nask but you can tell when someone is speaking, romanized pashto doesn't do any justice to the sounds.
    Unless people have started calling themselves Pashtana, nyway it sounds funny when I read it for Pashtuns, like when some say Afghani/Pashtuni. I am sure you'd find such 'articles'

    ugh I wanted to quote the language one.
    I edited your post and fixed it LOL.

    Yeah, I mean it's just a theory of how the term came to be, as good as any another I suppose. Personally, I think the sh/kh thing got overwhelming for the Brits, so they took it out, flipped the last Haa and Taa, and voila Pathan. When you compare the written words, all that is different is the 2nd letter is left out and the last 2 letters are flipped, which is pretty normal in a corruption I think. Unfortunatley, the corruption got more widespread than the original term. I assume most likely because pre-British everyone was calling a Pashtun, "Afghan" most likely. When the territory split, the term to distinguish the ethnic groups and nationality became more prominent and since the British were in charge, what they were using became what everyone heard over their dominion. I totally get why someone in Delhi only knows the word Pathan... but as you get closer to Pashtun areas, you'll be familiar with the Pashtun/Pakhtun term, depending on which dialect you are closer to. I'd say in Pakistan the average guy is more family with the term Pakhtun than Pashtun, as more people interact with people from the north. Like my Mother and grandmother say Pukhtun and Pukhto. My Father says Pashtun and Pashto, just what you hear more I suppose. I assume the widespread use of the term Pathan is most likely because people further away heard that's what these Afghans who are now under British control that don't speak Farsi are called, and that was likely propagated by the British and in Urdu/Hindi writing.

    But who knows? It just is.
    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 08-31-2018 at 12:49 AM.
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    I edited your post and fixed it LOL.

    Yeah, I mean it's just a theory of how the term came to be, as good as any another I suppose. Personally, I think the sh/kh thing got overwhelming for the Brits, so they took it out, flipped the last Haa and Taa, and voila Pathan. When you compare the written words, all that is different is the 2nd letter is left out and the last 2 letters are flipped, which is pretty normal in a corruption I think. Unfortunatley, the corruption got more widespread than the original term. I assume most likely because pre-British everyone was calling a Pashtun, "Afghan" most likely. When the territory split, the term to distinguish the ethnic groups and nationality became more prominent and since the British were in charge, what they were using became what everyone heard over their dominion. I totally get why someone in Delhi only knows the word Pathan... but as you get closer to Pashtun areas, you'll be familiar with the Pashtun/Pakhtun term, depending on which dialect you are closer to. I'd say in Pakistan the average guy is more family with the term Pakhtun than Pashtun, as more people interact with people from the north. Like my Mother and grandmother say Pukhtun and Pukhto. My Father says Pashtun and Pashto, just what you hear more I suppose. I assume the widespread use of the term Pathan is most likely because people further away heard that's what these Afghans who are now under British control that don't speak Farsi are called, and that was likely propagated by the British and in Urdu/Hindi writing.

    But who knows? It just is.
    Could be, I am on my phone and I dislike browsing on it. I am not sure what the brits called Pashtuns but I came across this, this is an interesting investigation. Heh.
    “The tribesmen are among the most miserable and brutal creatures on earth. Their intelligence only enables them to be more cruel, more dangerous, more destructible than the wild beasts. (…) I find it impossible to come to any other conclusion than that, in proportion that these valleys are purged form the pernicious vermin that infest them, so will the happiness of humanity be increased, and the progress of mankind accelerated,” a shaken and sulfurous Churchill jotted down in his notebook that day.
    https://thediplomat.com/2015/10/how-...s-in-pakistan/

    Expect mercy from thy enemy? The pathans!
    ‘Pernicious vermin’ ahem

    I’d like to add further on your assumption.
    What if the brits purposefully messed up the word because they still did say pakhto/Pashto, however Pashtun/Pakhtun became Pathan?
    Last edited by surbakhunWeesste; 08-31-2018 at 01:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by surbakhunWeesste View Post
    Could be, I am on my phone and I dislike browsing on it. I am not sure what the brits called Pashtuns but I came across this, this is an interesting investigation. Heh.

    https://thediplomat.com/2015/10/how-...s-in-pakistan/

    Expect mercy from thy enemy? The pathans!
    ‘Pernicious vermin’ ahem

    I’d like to add further on your assumption.
    What if the brits purposefully messed up the word because they still did say pakhto/Pashto, however Pashtun/Pakhtun became Pathan?
    We should see what the Mughals, Talpurs, Kalat etc.. wrote, what term they used. Pre-Brits they must have some writings.
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    We should see what the Mughals, Talpurs, Kalat etc.. wrote, what term they used. Pre-Brits they must have some writings.
    Definitely, I found this sometimes ago. Read it if you ever have free time and maybe we can figure more on the term Pathan.
    https://archive.org/stream/ThePathan...06822_djvu.txt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    The Di Cristofaro Hindu Kush Afghan Pashtun samples may be partially mixed. The individual closest to the average can me modeled as 8-10% East Asian (Han) admixed when excluding East Asian and WSHG admixed Saka/Wusan.

    Attachment 25613
    yo its missing the headers

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    Quote Originally Posted by surbakhunWeesste View Post
    Could be, I am on my phone and I dislike browsing on it. I am not sure what the brits called Pashtuns but I came across this, this is an interesting investigation. Heh.

    https://thediplomat.com/2015/10/how-...s-in-pakistan/

    Expect mercy from thy enemy? The pathans!
    ‘Pernicious vermin’ ahem

    I’d like to add further on your assumption.
    What if the brits purposefully messed up the word because they still did say pakhto/Pashto, however Pashtun/Pakhtun became Pathan?
    Horrible human that one

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    yo its missing the headers
    They're on the left handside.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

    avatar credit goes out to aaronbee2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    I guess everyone under British-India control from the 1700s onwards? That seems to be when the term became widespread according to the last article. I read that the Arabs often used the term Suleimani for Pashtuns and that was more widespread in use for among certain population before the British.
    Either way, it's widespread, to me it's analogous to a Mexican calling themselves Meksican as opposed to Mehicano in the US, because that's just the more widely understood term. Even the Baloch mostly use the word Pathan (or Pathana), though I've also heard Awgan (ie. Afghan). There is a 3rd word they use, but I can't recall it.
    I recall searching at the Persian texts site - persian.packhum.org/persian (not able to access for some reason) - and there was no mention of Pashtun, but the words Pathan and Afghan were present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by surbakhunWeesste View Post
    Definitely, I found this sometimes ago. Read it if you ever have free time and maybe we can figure more on the term Pathan.
    https://archive.org/details/ThePathansByOlafCaroe
    This book has me shooketh.
    I ain't even a real Pashtun based off of the info. in it(haven't read all though). Durranis and Ghilzais were just Afghan and not Pashtuns, apparently Pashtun/Pakhtun =/= Afghan.
    Last edited by surbakhunWeesste; 09-01-2018 at 09:27 PM.

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