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Thread: R1b-M412* or R1b-L51* in the Griko-speaking community of Grecža Salentina (?)

  1. #21
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    L51.jpg This is the diffusion map of R1b-L51* (PF7589) according to the GENO 2.0 tests From this map I see that it is higher in South Italy, Sicily, England, Normandy, Belgium, Holland

    What is the common denominator between south Italy, England, Normandy, Belgium, Holland?

  2. #22
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    From this map I see that it is higher in South Italy, North East Italy, England, Normandy, Belgium, Holland . What is the common denominator? L51.jpg

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    I highly doubt R1b-M412 is due to Greek origin, that high percent is probably due to a founder effect, Salento is in Puglia and the frequency is 2% in Puglia, which kind of makes it closer to the rest of the averages, R1b-M412 probably entered Italy pre Bronze Age or was a minor Italic lineage.
    It is surely due to a founder effect, but even without this particular case the frequencies in that area are still relatively high compared to almost anywhere else outside of the West Med

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  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbotti View Post
    From this map I see that it is higher in South Italy, North East Italy, England, Normandy, Belgium, Holland . What is the common denominator? L51.jpg
    This map seems a lot better:

    Last edited by Ethereal; 11-04-2018 at 11:49 AM.

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     Cascio (11-07-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    This map seems a lot better:

    Help me to understand: how can we say that in France there is the highest frequency of R-L51 * if France is poorly tested? Help me!

  8. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbotti View Post
    Help me to understand: how can we say that in France there is the highest frequency of R-L51 * if France is poorly tested? Help me!
    Well it’s as a percentage

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbotti View Post
    L51.jpg This is the diffusion map of R1b-L51* (PF7589) according to the GENO 2.0 tests From this map I see that it is higher in South Italy, Sicily, England, Normandy, Belgium, Holland

    What is the common denominator between south Italy, England, Normandy, Belgium, Holland?
    Norman Knights would explain England, Normandy and Sicily and recall too that the Norman’s actually included Flemings from the Low Countries.

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Well it’s as a percentage
    but France apart from Normandy, it is not tested

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     Salento (11-04-2018)

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbotti View Post
    Help me to understand: how can we say that in France there is the highest frequency of R-L51 * if France is poorly tested? Help me!
    I made this map in 2012. It was based on the data found in the study Myres et al 2010. Unlike testing bias found in commercial testing companies that make every group seem like its from southern Italy (where a large percentage of Italian American testers are from), it is unbiased. In that study they found 0% L51 in Greece.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I don't see what's so unreasonable about looking at the distribution of the more ancient subclades of a particular branch of Y DNA to track migrations. It just so happens that for L51*, this is firmly in the West Mediterranean (and not in Eastern Europe). To me, that points to a Western origin of the Central European Beaker folk.
    That's not even a fact, L51(xL11) is quite common in Germany for instance. I'm not sure what study had it firmly west Mediterranean but lacking in central Europe, but that is contrary to what the FTDNA data will tell you.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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