West Slavic R1b

[Tomenable]

How common is R1b among West Slavic ethnic groups? Which subclades are the most common ones?

Myres 2010 study had 18.4% of R1b in Poland. The same study had 21.6% of R1b for Czechia and 16.2% for Slovakia.

Link to Myres 2010 - http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2010146a.html

According to Myres 2010 the most common branch of R1b in Poland is U106 and in Czech Republic P312 predominates.

Among Lusatian Sorbs the percentage of R1b is 9.8% - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs#Genetics

[Tomenable]

What other studies apart from Myres 2010 tackle the issue of R1b in West Slavic nations?

[leonardo]

Among Kashubians:
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/kashubians.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashubians

There are a few things to factor: remnants left from before the Slavic migration, immigration of Germanic people in Medieval times and, of course, recent German immigration (by recent, I mean after the Partition). Isn't U106 and P312 associated with Celto-Germanic ancestry? We know the Celts were present in many parts where the West Slavs settled (not so much in Kashubia, I believe). The studies I attached list R1b as 7.8% and 8.2%, respectively, but don't specify branches or subclades.

[leonardo]

Among Kashubians:
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/kashubians.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashubians

There are a few things to factor: remnants left from before the Slavic migration, immigration of Germanic people in Medieval times and, of course, recent German immigration (by recent, I mean after the Partition). Isn't U106 and P312 associated with Celto-Germanic ancestry? We know the Celts were present in many parts where the West Slavs settled (not so much in Kashubia, I believe). The studies I attached list R1b as 7.8% and 8.2%, respectively, but don't specify branches or subclades.

Edit: perused the articles too quickly. The first article list two studies. R1b is 9.3% and 7.8%, respectively. The second article cites one of the studies already , mentioned for Kashubians and also lists a study for Kociewie, whereby 17.7% of those tested were R1b. Wouldn't Kociewie be an ancestral home for the Goths? I believe Kociewie was once pronounced Gociewie, as in land of the Goths.

[Tomenable]

Kociewie is populated by speakers of Greater Polish dialect. It isn't certain whether they are descended from 12th century settlers from Wielkopolska and Kujawy, or whether this area was populated by speakers of Greater Polish dialect already in the Early Middle Ages.

[leonardo]

Kociewie is populated by speakers of Greater Polish dialect. It isn't certain whether they are descended from 12th century settlers from Wielkopolska and Kujawy, or whether this area was populated by speakers of Greater Polish dialect already in the Early Middle Ages.

Going back into antiquity, this is part of the Amber Route. Goths and Celts would have occupied Kociewie. Too bad we don't have data regarding what remnant stayed.

[Tomenable]

Going back into antiquity, this is part of the Amber Route. Goths and Celts would have occupied Kociewie. Too bad we don't have data regarding what remnant stayed.

Kociewie were rather Gepids, Goths more to the south:

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?s...post&p=1717286



Archaeological cultures in 1st century AD (according to A. Kokowski):



Archaeological cultures in 4th century AD (according to A. Kokowski):

[leonardo]

Kociewie were rather Gepids, Goths more to the south:

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?s...post&p=1717286



Archaeological cultures in 1st century AD (according to A. Kokowski):



Archaeological cultures in 4th century AD (according to A. Kokowski):

I take it the Stavonai are Proto Slavs?

[GoldenHind]

While I can't give percentages, I can confirm that most subclades of R1b-P312 are present in Poland, the Czech Republic and Ukraine. I suspect that most are descendants of immigrants of Germanic origin from the modern period, as suggested above. Some may stem from an early Celtic presence there.

There were Bell Beaker settlements in the early Bronze Age in the Oder and Vistula river areas, and these are likely to have been rich in P312. I suspect some of them were incorporated into the Slavic people on the arrival of the latter there. For example, there is a P312>L238 (the so called "Nordic" subclade of P312 which is primarily found in Scandinavia) from Poland who is on the earliest branch of the L238 tree. Even the most devoted proponents of the P312 = Celts theory have given up trying to connect L238 with the Celts.

I can confirm there are P312>DF99 men from Poland, Ukraine (Lithuanian surname), the Czech Republic (Moravia) and two from Russia, one the descendant of an ancient Moscow Boyar family, though I suspect most and possibly all of them are ultimately of Germanic origin.

[ADW_1981]

Was the Piast dynasty R1b or not? Wasn't this linked to a study that's been in the works several years now?