Iberian Ancient DNA on the works

[Webb]

It is a true puzzle. One of the most interesting debates is to find out if the Caristios, Vardulos and Autrigones that occupied the current territory of the Basque Country, spoke Euzkera or not. The names of their cities are Celtic so they look like Indoeuropeans.

Autrigones- Virovesca (Briviesca), Tritium, Deobriga, Uxama Barca (Osma de Valdegobia), Segisamonculum..
Várdulos- Morogi, Menosca, Tullonium.
Karistios- Tullica, Suessatio, Veleia.

Cohors I Fida Vardulorum Miliaria Equitata Civium Romanorum, spent many years as a garrison on Hadrian's wall. Some Englishmen may descend from these Vardulos.

Celtic speaking thanks to DF27 ?- Do you think that the Celtic language existed in 1,700 BC, which is when we have found Df27 in Spain at the moment.

If you subscribe to the steppe theory and IE being related, then it makes sense that U106=Germanic Language. P312= Italic/Celtic Language. L21=Insular Celtic. This leaves either DF27 and/or U152 for Italic Languages/Pre-Celtic/ maybe a language that wasn't necessarily Celtic or Italic but a blend. My scenario is simplistic as I don't know that we will ever know for sure, but is L21 or U152 found in Spain at a high enough level to lend us to believe that they are the vector for this huge Pre-Celtic/Celtic area in the two maps? I think the early wave of Pre-Celtic was DF27. I think if full blown Celtic wasn't the language DF27 was speaking early on, they adopted it or there was a language shift and maybe the successive waves of DF27 who entered Iberia were speaking Celtic of some sort.

[rms2]

If one looks at the ancient distribution of Kurgan Bell Beaker, he cannot help but see how it corresponds to the ancient distribution of Italo-Celtic languages and peoples.

By the Iron Age, some 1,750 years after Kurgan Bell Beaker and R1b-P312 first arrived in Iberia, if some of their descendants spoke non-IE languages, that doesn't change a thing. I speak English now, and it's likely that a scant three or four hundred years ago my y-chromosome forebears spoke Welsh. I have other ancestors who not too long ago spoke French, some who spoke Dutch, and others who spoke German.

Here's a quote from our fearless leader that I think is appropriate, if understood correctly:

The directional nature of time means the past generally explains the present and not vice versa.

Likewise in this case the Early Bronze Age has more significance than the Iron Age.

[jdean]

That's an understatement

Well that's a nail : )

[rms2]

Well that's a nail : )

Well, not to disagree with Agamemnon - he knows far more about linguistics than I ever will - but Koch is a renowned Celticist. I wouldn't rush to pass judgment on his opinions on that subject.

[jdean]

The directional nature of time means the past generally explains the present and not vice versa.

I'm going to do my level best to remember that one : )

[jdean]

Well, not to disagree with Agamemnon - he knows far more about linguistics than I ever will - but Koch is a renowned Celticist. I wouldn't rush to pass judgment on his opinions on that subject.

Yes but I know Agamemnon better : )

[rms2]

I have Koch's Atlas for Celtic Studies. Pretty impressive.

[jdean]

I have Koch's Atlas for Celtic Studies. Pretty impressive.

Scan it and sell it !!!!!!

wow

[rms2]

Scan it and sell it !!!!!!

wow

It cost me over a hundred bucks some years back when I bought it. I would sell it a lot cheaper than what is being asked for at the Amazon link you posted.

[jdean]

It cost me over a hundred bucks some years back when I bought it. I would sell it a lot cheaper than what is being asked for at the Amazon link you posted.

And still turn a tidy profit : )