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Thread: Iberian Ancient DNA on the works

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by GASKA View Post
    It is a true puzzle. One of the most interesting debates is to find out if the Caristios, Vardulos and Autrigones that occupied the current territory of the Basque Country, spoke Euzkera or not. The names of their cities are Celtic so they look like Indoeuropeans.

    Autrigones- Virovesca (Briviesca), Tritium, Deobriga, Uxama Barca (Osma de Valdegobia), Segisamonculum..
    Várdulos- Morogi, Menosca, Tullonium.
    Karistios- Tullica, Suessatio, Veleia.

    Cohors I Fida Vardulorum Miliaria Equitata Civium Romanorum, spent many years as a garrison on Hadrian's wall. Some Englishmen may descend from these Vardulos.

    Celtic speaking thanks to DF27 ?- Do you think that the Celtic language existed in 1,700 BC, which is when we have found Df27 in Spain at the moment.
    If you subscribe to the steppe theory and IE being related, then it makes sense that U106=Germanic Language. P312= Italic/Celtic Language. L21=Insular Celtic. This leaves either DF27 and/or U152 for Italic Languages/Pre-Celtic/ maybe a language that wasn't necessarily Celtic or Italic but a blend. My scenario is simplistic as I don't know that we will ever know for sure, but is L21 or U152 found in Spain at a high enough level to lend us to believe that they are the vector for this huge Pre-Celtic/Celtic area in the two maps? I think the early wave of Pre-Celtic was DF27. I think if full blown Celtic wasn't the language DF27 was speaking early on, they adopted it or there was a language shift and maybe the successive waves of DF27 who entered Iberia were speaking Celtic of some sort.

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  3. #332
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    If one looks at the ancient distribution of Kurgan Bell Beaker, he cannot help but see how it corresponds to the ancient distribution of Italo-Celtic languages and peoples.

    By the Iron Age, some 1,750 years after Kurgan Bell Beaker and R1b-P312 first arrived in Iberia, if some of their descendants spoke non-IE languages, that doesn't change a thing. I speak English now, and it's likely that a scant three or four hundred years ago my y-chromosome forebears spoke Welsh. I have other ancestors who not too long ago spoke French, some who spoke Dutch, and others who spoke German.

    Here's a quote from our fearless leader that I think is appropriate, if understood correctly:

    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX
    The directional nature of time means the past generally explains the present and not vice versa.
    Likewise in this case the Early Bronze Age has more significance than the Iron Age.
    Last edited by rms2; 12-07-2018 at 12:26 AM.
     


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    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
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    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

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  5. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    That's an understatement
    Well that's a nail : )

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  7. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    Well that's a nail : )
    Well, not to disagree with Agamemnon - he knows far more about linguistics than I ever will - but Koch is a renowned Celticist. I wouldn't rush to pass judgment on his opinions on that subject.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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  9. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DMX
    The directional nature of time means the past generally explains the present and not vice versa.
    I'm going to do my level best to remember that one : )

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  11. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Well, not to disagree with Agamemnon - he knows far more about linguistics than I ever will - but Koch is a renowned Celticist. I wouldn't rush to pass judgment on his opinions on that subject.
    Yes but I know Agamemnon better : )

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  13. #337
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    I have Koch's Atlas for Celtic Studies. Pretty impressive.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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  15. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I have Koch's Atlas for Celtic Studies. Pretty impressive.
    Scan it and sell it !!!!!!

    wow

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  17. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    Scan it and sell it !!!!!!

    wow
    It cost me over a hundred bucks some years back when I bought it. I would sell it a lot cheaper than what is being asked for at the Amazon link you posted.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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  19. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    It cost me over a hundred bucks some years back when I bought it. I would sell it a lot cheaper than what is being asked for at the Amazon link you posted.
    And still turn a tidy profit : )

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