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Thread: Iberian Ancient DNA on the works

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romilius View Post
    . . . I simply think that both Non-IE speakers and IE speakers are from the same stock.
    Hmmm . . . I thought that is basically what I said.

    By the Iron Age both derived a lot of their ancestry from the Bronze Age substratum, i.e., the Neolithic farmers who were there before the steppe-derived people arrived.
     


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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Hmmm . . . I thought that is basically what I said.

    By the Iron Age both derived a lot of their ancestry from the Bronze Age substratum, i.e., the Neolithic farmers who were there before the steppe-derived people arrived.
    I'm pretty sure they mean post-Beaker bronze age stock, rather than non-steppe early bronze age stock. If that were the case the steppe ancestry of these iron age individuals would be even lower than what we've seen (~15-20% EMBA_Steppe) in Iberia_BA. The only way modern non-Basque Iberians would score 25-30% EMBA_Steppe would be if the migration period had had a massive impact, and while I'm fairly certain it did have its influence, I'm not expecting it to be very big
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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    I'm pretty sure they mean post-Beaker bronze age stock, rather than non-steppe early bronze age stock. If that were the case the steppe ancestry of these iron age individuals would be even lower than what we've seen (~15-20% EMBA_Steppe) in Iberia_BA. The only way modern non-Basque Iberians would score 25-30% EMBA_Steppe would be if the migration period had had a massive impact, and while I'm fairly certain it did have its influence, I'm not expecting it to be very big
    Okay, but they used the word substratum. The Bronze Age superstrate or superstratum would have been the steppe-derived people (mainly men), who were at the top of the societal heap.

    If they meant the population in general, rather than the underlying substrate, they should have said that.
    Last edited by rms2; 09-23-2018 at 05:09 PM.
     


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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Okay, but they used the word substratum. The Bronze Age superstrate or superstratum would have been the steppe-derived people (mainly men), who were at the top of the societal heap.

    If they meant the population in general, rather than the underlying substrate, they should have said that.
    I see what you are saying. I think the authors are saying "a substratum formed during Bronze Age" The substratum exists during the Iron age, not during the Bronze age. When comparing the incoming steppe migrants during the BA you could say they mixed into a "Neolithic substratum (meaning formed in the Neolithic)" despite talking about the events that happened in the Bronze age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Hmmm . . . I thought that is basically what I said.

    By the Iron Age both derived a lot of their ancestry from the Bronze Age substratum, i.e., the Neolithic farmers who were there before the steppe-derived people arrived.
    Yes, sorry. I didn't understand at first the substratum link. I keep thinking that, probably, they mean Bronze age substratum as whole substratum to Iron Age.

    I think that only asking to Olalde we can understand something... I wonder why there wasn't any tweet about his conference at ISBA2018...
    Last edited by Romilius; 09-23-2018 at 07:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romilius View Post
    Yes, sorry. I didn't understand at first the substratum link. I keep thinking that, probably, they mean Bronze age substratum as whole substratum to Iron Age.

    I think that only asking to Olalde we can understand something... I wonder why there wasn't any tweet about his conference at ISBA2018...
    I want to ask Olalde about P312 on the steppe because he seems to be the only one down-to-earth enough to answer - a really decent guy - but I don't want to push it.
     


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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psynome View Post
    I see what you are saying. I think the authors are saying "a substratum formed during Bronze Age" The substratum exists during the Iron age, not during the Bronze age. When comparing the incoming steppe migrants during the BA you could say they mixed into a "Neolithic substratum (meaning formed in the Neolithic)" despite talking about the events that happened in the Bronze age.
    But what they actually wrote was the following:

    During the later Iron Age, the first genome-wide data from ancient non-Indo-European speakers showed that they were similar to contemporaneous Indo-European speakers and derived most of their ancestry from the earlier Bronze Age substratum.
     


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    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

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    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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  15. #28
    I don't have access to the site, this is what they posted at New Scientist as news (28 Sep):

    https://www.newscientist.com/article...box=1538115037

    A genetic analysis has revealed that, about 4500 years ago, part of southern Europe was conquered from the east. In what is now Spain and Portugal, the local male line vanished almost overnight, and males from outside became the only ones to leave descendants.

    David Reich of Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts presented the results on Saturday at New Scientist Live in London, UK.

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  17. #29
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    Bell beakers, unfortunately that's nothing new
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  19. #30
    Yep Bell Beakers

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