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Thread: I1 Migration Story

  1. #1
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    I1 Migration Story

    I1 more than likely has a Scandinavian origin and most of the early subclades probably do as well. The purpose of this thread is to give your opinion as to when, how, and with which subclade your paternal ancestor left Scandinavia (unless they are still living there).

    I think that my mutations of I1-DF29-Z58-Z59-Z2041-Z2040-Z382-S26361-S16414-S22349-FGC24357 all have a Scandinavian origin (Denmark/Southern Sweden) and they can still be found there today. I think that between (0-500 CE) FGC24347 and S10350 left Denmark/Northern Germany/Frisia with either the Jutes, Angles, Saxons, or Frisians because those subclades no longer have matches in Scandinavia and are mostly found in the British Isles. My paper trail is Wallonia Belgium in 1663 CE. However, there is a family legend that our family migrated from the British Isles near the time of the religious wars in Europe.

    What is your theory on your I1 migration story?
    Last edited by mwauthy; 09-06-2018 at 10:58 PM. Reason: Addition

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  3. #2
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    I guess my forefathers were somewhere around the Jutland peninsula 2,000 years ago (I match a couple of families from north Germany at about 2,500 ybp and Z140 is often considered broadly West Germanic). Then it's possible they became Danes and left Scania or perhaps Denmark proper with the Viking invaders of the late ninth to 11th centuries. That's based on my only Big Y match (which you can see in my signature) and the part of England where my direct paternal ancestors lived.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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  5. #3
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    My theory right now is subject to change as more results come in for Big Y and other NGS tests.

    As with all I1 I believe my early ancestors to have originated in southern Scandinavia, perhaps in southern Sweden or in Jutland, and from there they spread outward during the early stages of Germanic migration that eventually accelerated with the Migration Period and the eventual fall of the Western Roman Empire. From there if I take into account the calculated TMRCA and formed dates for my terminal SNP A14097 (1,700-1,850 YBP) it would seem given the current evidence that perhaps this lineage has something to do with the Kingdom of Bernicia, or Northumbria in general. Interestingly my closest Big Y matches are downstream of me and our lines branched off quite early from each other. Those two matches appear to be of British origin, with likely origins in Northern England/Southern Scotland or the English Midlands and another match is from Northern Ireland, who I have been unsuccessful at contacting, his surname is essentially the same as mine and we trace our family trees to the same era. Outside of that, other branches (including the branch that our own JMcB belongs to) of the larger Y3647 (Y7198) clade can be found in Scotland, England and Northern Ireland.

    Considering the evidence and TMRCAs and other estimations Bernicia/Northumbria seem the most likely considering their period of power that spread their influence from the southern borders with Mercia to the Southern Uplands & the Lothians in Scotland. However, because we lack any continental results (for now, or AFAIK) a later Danelaw or Viking period origin seems less likely, but the possibility could be there if more data rolls in.

    From a Northumbrian origin, perhaps either through early Anglian settlement in southern Scotland, or with later Anglo-Saxon arrivals fleeing the aftermath of 1066 my ancestor and his descendants ended up in Scotland, where their descendants took a Gaelic surname, and eventually migrated to the new world in the 1800s.

    To summarize my theory:

    Jutland/Southern Scandinavia to Northern England/Southern Scotland with either the Angles who would settle Bamburgh and found Bernicia or with Angles who first arrived in Deira, and later went north, from there they made their way to Scotland, adopted a Scottish surname and in the 1800s migrated to Canada.


    My inner child would have much preferred a Viking origin theory, however considering the current evidence my specific origin theory predates the Vikings, and so far fits with the earlier wave of Germanic seafarers who made their way to Britain.
    Y-DNA: I-A14097(Scotland),
    Big Y: I-F2642>Y1966>Y3649>A13241>Y3647>A14097 (1,850 YBP)
    mtDNA: pending (Westeremden, Netherlands)
    Other lines:
    R-M222 x2, R-L21 x2, I-M223, R-S1141, R-U198 & R-U106, mtHg J1c3
    Known ancestry
    Paternal: Britain & Ireland, France and Germany
    Maternal: Netherlands

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post

    My inner child would have much preferred a Viking origin theory, however considering the current evidence my specific origin theory predates the Vikings, and so far fits with the earlier wave of Germanic seafarers who made their way to Britain.
    Funny, I was the other way round spruithean. I've always been interested in the Vikings, have visited sites from Iceland to Norway to Russia and still often read the sagas; but the early Anglo-Saxons really have a hold on my feelings. I suppose it's the whole idea of Roman Britain coming to an earth-shattering end and families crossing the sea from the homelands to build new lives. In particular I enjoy studying their material culture in books and collections, from fibulae to pottery styles. The Migration Period is the most fascinating for me by a long way. I now suppose that my Y line was part of that same culture but on the other side of the North Sea from what I thought most likely. We missed the boat the first time round, waited a few hundred years and finally gave it a shot.
    Last edited by JonikW; 09-06-2018 at 09:43 PM.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    My theory right now is subject to change as more results come in for Big Y and other NGS tests.

    As with all I1 I believe my early ancestors to have originated in southern Scandinavia, perhaps in southern Sweden or in Jutland, and from there they spread outward during the early stages of Germanic migration that eventually accelerated with the Migration Period and the eventual fall of the Western Roman Empire. From there if I take into account the calculated TMRCA and formed dates for my terminal SNP A14097 (1,700-1,850 YBP) it would seem given the current evidence that perhaps this lineage has something to do with the Kingdom of Bernicia, or Northumbria in general. Interestingly my closest Big Y matches are downstream of me and our lines branched off quite early from each other. Those two matches appear to be of British origin, with likely origins in Northern England/Southern Scotland or the English Midlands and another match is from Northern Ireland, who I have been unsuccessful at contacting, his surname is essentially the same as mine and we trace our family trees to the same era. Outside of that, other branches (including the branch that our own JMcB belongs to) of the larger Y3647 (Y7198) clade can be found in Scotland, England and Northern Ireland.

    Considering the evidence and TMRCAs and other estimations Bernicia/Northumbria seem the most likely considering their period of power that spread their influence from the southern borders with Mercia to the Southern Uplands & the Lothians in Scotland. However, because we lack any continental results (for now, or AFAIK) a later Danelaw or Viking period origin seems less likely, but the possibility could be there if more data rolls in.

    From a Northumbrian origin, perhaps either through early Anglian settlement in southern Scotland, or with later Anglo-Saxon arrivals fleeing the aftermath of 1066 my ancestor and his descendants ended up in Scotland, where their descendants took a Gaelic surname, and eventually migrated to the new world in the 1800s.

    To summarize my theory:

    Jutland/Southern Scandinavia to Northern England/Southern Scotland with either the Angles who would settle Bamburgh and found Bernicia or with Angles who first arrived in Deira, and later went north, from there they made their way to Scotland, adopted a Scottish surname and in the 1800s migrated to Canada.


    My inner child would have much preferred a Viking origin theory, however considering the current evidence my specific origin theory predates the Vikings, and so far fits with the earlier wave of Germanic seafarers who made their way to Britain.
    Iím awaiting my Big Y results and yes I agree that my theory might change over the next 20 years as more data rolls in. I really thought my I1 was Frankish up until I received zero matches from Belgium and all of my matches were from the British Isles. I know some of the numbers are due to testing bias in the various countries but I canít ignore the data thatís in front of me.

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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    I guess my forefathers were somewhere around the Jutland peninsula 2,000 years ago (I match a couple of families from north Germany at about 2,500 ybp and Z140 is often considered broadly West Germanic). Then it's possible they became Danes and left Scania or perhaps Denmark proper with the Viking invaders of the late ninth to 11th centuries. That's based on my only Big Y match (which you can see in my signature) and the part of England where my direct paternal ancestors lived.
    Yes your TMRCA and location is an excellent candidate for a Viking ancestor. Although one can never know for sure because a backwards migration is theoretically possible even if unlikely. More data and more matches will give more certainty to our theories.

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  13. #7
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    I-L813 >Y36690

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    What is your theory on your I1 migration story?
    Thank you Mwauthy for this thread,

    First of all, all my ( known) recent ancestry is Norman, West Normandy to be exact, next to the Channel Islands.
    But now I have a doubt about the more recent origin of my paternal line, this being the first reason for my analyzes. The family tradition has always said that my third great-grandfather was a Russian soldier.

    So I tested the BigY, then YFull, which I'm sure all my old matches (my last branch or Terminal SNP is supposed to go back to 1,500 years, before the Viking period) are Swedish and Finnish.

    Now, for more recent periods, I don't know, a Swedish ancestor may have gone to Russia at different times, with the Varangians or after, he could very well be Danish, southern Sweden being part of the Kingdom of Denmark at the time of the Vikings (or Normans) and sailing west, which is likely, but not certain.

    I am part of different groups, like L813 on FB and FTDNA

    I1> L22> Z74> L813> I-Y18927> I-Y21736> I-Y20861> I-Y36690
    Last edited by Helgenes50; 09-07-2018 at 01:04 AM.
    My results from David Wesolowski's Ancestry Detective Service:

    West British (Britonic?) 42.3%
    Continental Northern and Eastern European 36.6%
    Central French 21.1%

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  15. #8
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    MWauthy,
    A really good idea for a thread, and thus far am impressed by the detail being reported by participants.

    My interest is not actually for myself but my adopted son who is I1. Thus far he is showing the same
    pattern of likely UK origin before his ancestors migrated to Australia/New Zealand.

    My greatest focus in research has been Jutland, the Sth Baltic, and the era between 850CE and 1066CE
    I have a lot of data that suggests large numbers of 'Anglo/Saxon' & 'Danish' warrior leaders & families,
    fled UK in around 1074 on several hundred ships, and went mostly to Byzantium where these people
    became the new backbone of the Varangian guard. It had formerly been dominated by Scandinavians
    particularly the Rhos (Scandinavians who traded through Russia to the Black Sea).

    However, I also believe a large number of northern leaders & warrior class fled into Scotland to get away
    from the armies of William during the period known as 'The Harrying of the North' (same reason the
    ships left for Byzantium).

    My own best summary of I1 in England is that very little came over with the Angles (IIRC, I1 is still weak
    in Jutland today compared to R1b-U106, R1a, & perhaps on a par with R1b-P312. Just as U106 is strong
    in East England but almost negligible on the west of England. I1 is the same in Denmark. i.e. strong in
    East Denmark and Skaane but drops away rapidly through the island of Fyn and more so in Jutland.

    So, I tend to be cautious about I1 arriving with the Jutes/Angles/Saxons & Frisians in the immediate
    aftermath of the Roman collapse. However, because of the origins and mix of the 'Viking' invasions that started
    with 'The Great Heathen Army' 865CE - I can believe more I1 were among them, and more among the Danish
    who later invaded under Sweyn & Canute (1013CE to 1018CD). It can be argued that perhaps most I1 and
    R1a and S1194 (apart from much Irish R1a & Orcadian R1a) came to Britain with the Viking and Danish
    incursions between 865CE and 1018CE. The Jutes, Angles, Saxons & Frisians were apparently dominantly
    U106, R1a, P312 & some I1.

    The great thing about our various lines of research is how we can learn from each other especially when some
    put a lot of focus into their own lines. (Mine is R1b-S1194 - brother clade to P312 & U106 & from my own research
    also came to Britain with the Danish incursions. Our line of S1194 settled in Devon where we are less than 0.5%
    of the Y-DNA found there. We appear to have had a home in the Sth Baltic and been part of the Danish territories).

    The above are observations and as always get refined with other peoples input and expertise. The funny side of all
    this DNA research for me is ....
    "the more I learn, the less I know".

    Doug M








    .
    Last edited by dsm; 09-07-2018 at 02:27 AM. Reason: more typos

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helgenes50 View Post
    Thank you Mwauthy for this thread,

    First of all, all my ( known) recent ancestry is Norman, West Normandy to be exact, next to the Channel Islands.
    But now I have a doubt about the more recent origin of my paternal line, this being the first reason for my analyzes. The family tradition has always said that my third great-grandfather was a Russian soldier.

    So I tested the BigY, then YFull, which I'm sure all my old matches (my last branch or Terminal SNP is supposed to go back to 1,500 years, before the Viking period) are Swedish and Finnish.

    Now, for more recent periods, I don't know, a Swedish ancestor may have gone to Russia at different times, with the Varangians or after, he could very well be Danish, southern Sweden being part of the Kingdom of Denmark at the time of the Vikings (or Normans) and sailing west, which is likely, but not certain.

    I am part of different groups, like L813 on FB and FTDNA

    I1> L22> Z74> L813> I-Y18927> I-Y21736> I-Y20861> I-Y36690
    As in your case and my case it seems there might be some validity to our family legends or traditions especially when there are no immediate matches to the immediate location of our paternal ancestry. What I find so fascinating about trying to solve the puzzle is that oftentimes multiple theories are plausible and can match the data.

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  19. #10
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    I figure I have I1 Y dna since my father's father's side..... is from the U.K. and I get some Scandinavian population groups as a primary with some oracles. Since we know Scandinavian people invaded the U.K. this seems only reasonable, however it is interesting that a small group in Sicily has the I1 Y dna as well.

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