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Thread: I1 Migration Story

  1. #21
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    Kent
    Ethnicity
    Isles Celto-Germanic
    Nationality
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    Y-DNA
    I1 Z140+ A21912+
    mtDNA
    V

    Wales England Cornwall Scotland Ireland
    First, I'd like to add my thanks to mwauthy for starting this thread, which is seeing some excellent comments and observations. Posting yesterday made me go back to YFull to see if I had any new matches. I haven't, but they've removed the "new" tag from my sample and that of my Swedish cousin and in the process have recalibrated the TMRCA date. We now have 1,280 ybp, which is the year 738 under their methodology. Basically then, while this is closer to 865 than it is to 500, it is only an estimate so everything's up for grabs again regarding Anglo-Saxon or Viking roots. Fascinating and frustrating at the same time!
    I agree with other posters about the importance of evidence and I'll have to hope for a number of new matches before drawing conclusions.
    I was fascinated by Doug's insights and look forward to more aDNA from the Anglo-Saxons (the study on an AS cemetery in Cambridgeshire should be coming up relatively soon). So far we only have one ancient AS sample and he was I1 (as Doug and others say, much, much more data is needed to build an accurate picture).
    I'm very pleased so far that I tested Big Y this year, in particular because I feel it's given me the knowledge that my ancestors came to England in one of the Germanic waves of the first millennium or so (my TMRCA with the match in Sweden and more distant cousins in north Germany at 2,500 ybp). I've long been aware of cultural links between Scandinavia and Britain that date back to the Neolithic and Bronze Age (parallels between, for example, the Medway tombs and some in Scandinavia; and solar motifs on rock carvings in Derbyshire and Scandinavia, for example) so at least I feel I can rule such an origin out now. In itself, Z140 and some other I1 subclades look old enough for bearers to have arrived in England in prehistory, as well as with the more obvious AS, Viking and Norman migrations.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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  3. #22
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    England
    Ethnicity
    English
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    Y-DNA
    I1a1b1
    mtDNA
    H1c3

    England Ireland Wales Scotland England North of England European Union
    I've not really tested much further than Y67 on FTDNA for my own patrilineal line. As far as I know, the Smith line goes back to the mid-18th century in Goosnargh, Lancashire (not too far from my home city of Preston) and my 6x great grandfather Henry Smith (born c1740, his father may have been called James). I'm I-P109/I1a1b1 as far as I know.

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  5. #23
    Gold Class Member
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    England
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    Northern English
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    British
    Y-DNA
    Brother I2-M26 I2a1a
    mtDNA
    H4a1a1a

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    what test? can you provide me a link?
    Hi Jerry you already have some advice on deeper testing but for a superficial y dna result you can do living DNA, but it is not quick. That way you get some great autosomal analytics on where your ancestors came from within the British Isles in addition to both a y and mtdna result. Guessing never works, from the distribution of the y dna compared with my ancestral locations I thought my brother would be one of the R lines but he was I2 instead. Good luck with it!
    Image “Westray wifie” replica of Neolithic figurine Hidden Content
    Out of 64 pre 1800 births 45% Cheshire, 1% Irish (or Scottish), 25% south Derbyshire, 13% Burton on Trent area (where 4 counties within 10 miles), 7% Shropshire, 1% Staffs, 8% Lancs. So far all British Isles despite what some testing companies say.

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  7. #24
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    765
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    Ontario
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    Canadian
    Y-DNA
    I-A14097

    Canada Netherlands United Kingdom Ireland France
    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    First, I'd like to add my thanks to mwauthy for starting this thread, which is seeing some excellent comments and observations. Posting yesterday made me go back to YFull to see if I had any new matches. I haven't, but they've removed the "new" tag from my sample and that of my Swedish cousin and in the process have recalibrated the TMRCA date. We now have 1,280 ybp, which is the year 738 under their methodology. Basically then, while this is closer to 865 than it is to 500, it is only an estimate so everything's up for grabs again regarding Anglo-Saxon or Viking roots. Fascinating and frustrating at the same time!
    I agree with other posters about the importance of evidence and I'll have to hope for a number of new matches before drawing conclusions.
    I was fascinated by Doug's insights and look forward to more aDNA from the Anglo-Saxons (the study on an AS cemetery in Cambridgeshire should be coming up relatively soon). So far we only have one ancient AS sample and he was I1 (as Doug and others say, much, much more data is needed to build an accurate picture).
    I'm very pleased so far that I tested Big Y this year, in particular because I feel it's given me the knowledge that my ancestors came to England in one of the Germanic waves of the first millennium or so (my TMRCA with the match in Sweden and more distant cousins in north Germany at 2,500 ybp). I've long been aware of cultural links between Scandinavia and Britain that date back to the Neolithic and Bronze Age (parallels between, for example, the Medway tombs and some in Scandinavia; and solar motifs on rock carvings in Derbyshire and Scandinavia, for example) so at least I feel I can rule such an origin out now. In itself, Z140 and some other I1 subclades look old enough for bearers to have arrived in England in prehistory, as well as with the more obvious AS, Viking and Norman migrations.
    I've often wondered about some Z140 and other I1 clades predating both AS, Viking and later Norman era migrations. Some clades seem entirely restricted to the Isles, with no representation on the continent. Could be testing bias, or perhaps something else. I'm not sure which clades under F2642 could be pre-Migration Period as I-F2642 (SBT-A1) is seen in the Iceland study. Considering SBT-A1 was mostly "Gaelic" in his ethnic origin with some "Norse" added in, yet plotting closer to England, perhaps his direct paternal line was Anglo-Saxon, with later Scandinavian and Gaelic admixture.

    I hope that Cambridgeshire Anglo-Saxon study reveals some interesting aDNA for both Y-DNA and autosomal DNA, we could definitely use it.

    Interesting to think from one of the earlier posts in here that perhaps the Anglo-Saxons didn't carry much I1. I think they carried a fair amount despite the modern weakness of I1 in Denmark. One of the first aY-DNA from an Anglo-Saxon at the Teesside was I-M253 (noted as I-S107 in the study).

    EDIT: the Anglo-Saxons most certainly fled north to Scotland and elsewhere in the aftermath of 1066, especially more noble houses of the time. We know Tostig Godwinson was a close friend of the King of Scotland in his time and Tostig's deputy Copsi had spent some exile in Orkney. Also worth noting that some of the Godwinson brothers had spent their exile in Ireland and a generation later with the sons of Harold Godwinson attempting to invade England from Ireland with Irish forces. I don't think Anglo-Saxon interaction with Ireland and Scotland is as non-existent as it might appear at first glance.

    Some of the later AS nobles in Northern Northumbria and the Lothians were of seemingly mixed origins with one of them being the progenitor of the House of Dunbar and a descendant of this early Anglo-Scottish earl was a descendant of the King of Scotland.
    Last edited by spruithean; 09-07-2018 at 10:56 AM.
    Y-DNA: I-A14097(Scotland),
    Big Y: I-F2642>Y1966>Y3649>A13241>Y3647>A14097 (1,850 YBP)
    mtDNA: pending (Westeremden, Netherlands)
    Other lines:
    R-M222 x2, R-L21 x2, I-M223, R-S1141, R-U198 & R-U106, mtHg J1c3
    Known ancestry
    Paternal: Britain & Ireland, France and Germany
    Maternal: Netherlands

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  9. #25
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    494

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    what test? can you provide me a link?
    In the more Germanic areas of the British Isles I1 is only around 15% of the Y haplogroups so mathematically odds are you are probably not I1. Testing is the only way to know for sure. If you’ve done the Ancestry ethnicity estimate you can run your raw data through Wegene for free and they will let you know if you are I1 or not. That’s what I did for my father. Wegene assigned him to I1a2 or basically I-Z58.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by C J Wyatt III View Post
    Yes, you really don't know until you know.

    I first got into genetic genealogy thinking I would find the missing link which would connect my patrilineal Wyatt line to Sir Thomas Wyatt. I was expecting something like R1b for the haplogroup. Instead it came back I1. Through a lot of work I was able to determine that my 7th great grandfather likely was a William Wyatt who was indentured in Barbados in 1659. However on the right side of the Atlantic, the line appears to trace back to a Holcombe line.

    I started out with FTDNA's Y-37 test and later upgraded to Y-67, plus did some individual Y-SNP testing. At this point, I am ready to do Big-Y when I get the funds together.

    Jerry, you just missed out on FTDNA's latest sale, but another one will probably be along at the end of the year if you want to wait. I would recommend Y-37 which should give you your upper level haplogroup and some indication of whether you have any matches on your patrilineal line. That might be enough to answer your questions, but if you decided to ecpand your testing, that is a good level to build on.


    Here's a link to FTDNA's Y-DNA tests:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/products/y-dna

    Hope this helps.

    Jack
    Did you ever get your results back from YSEQ for I-S10350? According to the I1 project data there are two Holcomb(e)s who tested positive for S10350 like myself. I’m waiting for my Big Y results to see if I match their subclades downstream of S10350.

    The surname Holcombe is Anglo-Saxon in origin most likely and is derived from the Old English elements of Hol (which means deep or hollow) and cumb(which means valley).

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  13. #27
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    1,358
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    Ethnicity
    North & Ionian Seas
    Nationality
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    England Italy Germany Scotland
     

    1 69.1% German (Dodecad) + 30.9% Tuscan (HGDP)
    2 78.2% CEU (HapMap) + 21.8% Greek (Dodecad)
    3 67.1% German (Dodecad) + 32.9% O_Italian (Dodecad)
    4 73.7% Orkney (1000 Genomes) + 26.3% Greek (Dodecad)
    5 74.4% Orcadian (HGDP) + 25.6% Greek (Dodecad)
    6 79.1% CEU (HapMap) + 20.9% Sicilian (Dodecad)
    7 61.6% German (Dodecad) + 38.4% TSI (HapMap)
    8 61.3% German (Dodecad) + 38.7% N_Italian (Dodecad)
    9 71.7% German (Dodecad) + 28.3% C_Italian (Dodecad)
    10 80% CEU (HapMap) + 20% S_Italian (Dodecad)
    11 75.6% Argyll (1000 Genomes) + 24.4% Sicilian (Dodecad)
    12 80.9% CEU (HapMap) + 19.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar)
    13 52.2% British (Dodecad) + 47.8% Romanians_14 (Behar)
    14 78.6% CEU (HapMap) + 21.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
    15 51.7% Cornwall (1000 Genomes) + 48.3% Romanians_14 (Behar)
    16 76.2% N._European (Xing) + 23.8% Greek (Dodecad)
    17 75.4% Orcadian (HGDP) + 24.6% Sicilian (Dodecad)
    18 74.8% Orkney (1000 Genomes) + 25.2% Sicilian (Dodecad)
    19 54.5% Kent (1000 Genomes) + 45.5% Romanians_14 (Behar)
    20 57.4% Dutch (Dodecad) + 42.6% Romanians_14 (Behar)


     

    1 92.7% French (HGDP) + 7.3% Abhkasians (Yunusbayev) @ 0.78
    2 66.5% British (Dodecad) + 33.5% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 0.8
    3 74% Cornwall (1000 Genomes) + 26% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 0.81
    4 92.3% French (HGDP) + 7.7% Georgians (Behar) @ 0.82
    5 64.4% Cornwall (1000 Genomes) + 35.6% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 0.83
    6 66.4% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 33.6% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 0.84
    7 63.7% British (Dodecad) + 36.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 0.84
    8 73.7% Kent (1000 Genomes) + 26.3% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 0.85
    9 67.3% Cornwall (1000 Genomes) + 32.7% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 0.87
    10 64.1% Kent (1000 Genomes) + 35.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 0.87
    11 71.6% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 28.4% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 0.88
    12 65.4% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 34.6% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 0.88
    13 73.2% Cornwall (1000 Genomes) + 26.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 0.89
    14 60.9% British (Dodecad) + 39.1% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 0.89
    15 66.9% Kent (1000 Genomes) + 33.1% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 0.89
    16 73.1% Cornwall (1000 Genomes) + 26.9% Ashkenazy_Jews @ 0.9
    17 77.6% Cornwall (1000 Genomes) + 22.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 0.9
    18 61.7% CEU30 (1000Genomes) + 38.3% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 0.9
    19 77.3% Kent (1000 Genomes) + 22.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 0.9
    20 69% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 31% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 0.91

     
    1 90.9% Austrian (derived) + 9.1% Greek_Cretan (derived) @ 2.09
    2 76.9% Austrian (derived) + 23.1% Romania (derived) @ 2.1
    3 86.6% Austrian (derived) + 13.4% Greek_South (derived) @ 2.13
    4 92.6% Austrian (derived) + 7.4% Turk (derived) @ 2.13
    5 89.5% Austrian (derived) + 10.5% Italian-South (derived) @ 2.13
    6 88.2% Austrian (derived) + 11.8% Greek_Center (derived) @ 2.14
    7 92.8% Austrian (derived) + 7.2% Cypriot (derived) @ 2.14
    8 88.7% Austrian (derived) + 11.3% Greek_East (derived) @ 2.14
    9 86.7% Austrian (derived) + 13.3% Greek_North (derived) @ 2.16
    10 89% Austrian (derived) + 11% Italian-Center (derived) @ 2.16
    11 90.1% Austrian (derived) + 9.9% Sicilian (derived) @ 2.17
    12 91% Austrian (derived) + 9% Ashkenazim (derived) @ 2.18
    13 92.8% Austrian (derived) + 7.2% Jew_Syria (derived) @ 2.19
    14 90.5% Austrian (derived) + 9.5% Greek_Azov (derived) @ 2.19
    15 93.3% Austrian (derived) + 6.7% Lebanese (derived) @ 2.19
    16 93.7% Austrian (derived) + 6.3% Iraqi (derived) @ 2.22
    17 58.8% Serbian (derived) + 41.2% Welsh (derived) @ 2.22
    18 93.8% Austrian (derived) + 6.2% Armenian (derived) @ 2.24
    19 92.4% Austrian (derived) + 7.6% Jew_Algeria (derived) @ 2.24
    20 93.8% Austrian (derived) + 6.2% Kurd (derived) @ 2.25





     
    1 DK + NO + NO + Tuscan @ 4.805030
    2 English + NO + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.808498
    3 DK + NO + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.814041
    4 NO + NO + NO + Tuscan @ 4.819273
    5 English + NO + NO + Tuscan @ 4.830765
    6 English + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.846118
    7 NO + NO + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.876229
    8 DK + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.883138
    9 DK + DK + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.921634
    10 NL + NO + NO + Tuscan @ 4.931489
    11 NL + NO + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.952838
    12 DK + DK + NO + Tuscan @ 4.952845
    13 NO + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 4.992786
    14 NO + NO + Tuscan + West_&_Central_German @ 4.995282
    15 NL + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 5.026899
    16 DK + English + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 5.039971
    17 NO + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan + West_&_Central_German @ 5.044879
    18 DK + English + NO + Tuscan @ 5.098952
    19 DK + NL + South_&_Central_Swedish + Tuscan @ 5.123560
    20 DK + NL + NO + Tuscan @ 5.139149


     

    1 74% English (Dodecad) + 26% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 0.87
    2 74.5% Kent (1000Genomes) + 25.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 0.89
    3 74% English (Dodecad) + 26% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 0.95
    4 75.6% Cornwall (1000Genomes) + 24.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 0.97
    5 74.5% Kent (1000Genomes) + 25.5% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 1.02
    6 91.3% French (HGDP) + 8.7% Balkars (Yunusbayev) @ 1.02
    7 91.1% French (HGDP) + 8.9% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 1.03
    8 91.5% French (HGDP) + 8.5% North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.05
    9 71.5% British_Isles (Dodecad) + 28.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 1.06
    10 71.8% British (Dodecad) + 28.2% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 1.06
    11 75.7% Cornwall (1000Genomes) + 24.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 1.07
    12 71.3% Irish (Dodecad) + 28.7% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 1.12
    13 91.3% French (HGDP) + 8.7% Adygei (HGDP) @ 1.12
    14 90.6% French (Dodecad) + 9.4% Chechens (Yunusbayev) @ 1.13
    15 78.2% Kent (1000Genomes) + 21.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 1.14
    16 73.4% English (Dodecad) + 26.6% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 1.14
    17 71.6% British_Isles (Dodecad) + 28.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 1.15
    18 58.9% English (Dodecad) + 41.1% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.16
    19 71.8% British (Dodecad) + 28.2% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 1.16
    20 59.6% Kent (1000Genomes) + 40.4% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.16




     
    1 64.4 Croatian + 35.6 Portuguese @ 1.39
    2 88.1 South_German + 11.9 Sephardic_Jew @ 1.4
    3 86.7 South_German + 13.3 Ashkenazy_Jew @ 1.42
    4 61.3 Hungarian + 38.7 Portuguese @ 1.44
    5 87.2 South_German + 12.8 Sicilian @ 1.45
    6 71 South_German + 29 Montenegrin @ 1.52
    7 86.2 Utahn_White + 13.8 Sephardic_Jew @ 1.53
    8 84.5 Utahn_White + 15.5 Ashkenazy_Jew @ 1.54
    9 92 South_German + 8 Egyptian @ 1.54
    10 50.4 Norwegian + 49.6 Italian @ 1.55
    11 90.5 Utahn_White + 9.5 Egyptian @ 1.55
    12 54.2 Italian + 45.8 Swedish @ 1.56
    13 91.9 South_German + 8.1 Samaritian @ 1.56
    14 81 South_German + 19 Albanian @ 1.57
    15 77.6 English + 22.4 Sicilian @ 1.57
    16 58.9 Slovenian + 41.1 Portuguese @ 1.59
    17 79.2 English + 20.8 Sephardic_Jew @ 1.59
    18 85.1 Utahn_White + 14.9 Sicilian @ 1.61
    19 74 Scottish + 26 Sicilian @ 1.61
    20 75.8 Scottish + 24.2 Sephardic_Jew @ 1.63


     
    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50 Norwegian +50 Italian @ 1.620151


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50 Swedish +25 Portuguese +25 Greek_Thessaly @ 0.964493


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Swedish + Swedish + Portuguese + Greek_Thessaly @ 0.964493
    2 Swedish + Norwegian + Portuguese + Greek_Thessaly @ 1.075507
    3 Polish + North_German + Portuguese + Albanian @ 1.106073
    4 Hungarian + South_German + Serbian + Portuguese @ 1.121520
    5 Polish + Scottish + Portuguese + Greek_Thessaly @ 1.137257
    6 North_German + Slovenian + Bulgarian + Portuguese @ 1.140830
    7 Hungarian + Utahn_White + Serbian + Portuguese @ 1.142349
    8 Swedish + Swedish + Portuguese + Greek_Central @ 1.148676
    9 English + Slovenian + Macedonian + Portuguese @ 1.163651
    10 North_German + Slovenian + Romanian + Portuguese @ 1.172692
    11 Lithuanian + South_German + Portuguese + Tuscan @ 1.175224
    12 Polish + Swedish + Portuguese + Tuscan @ 1.178285
    13 Utahn_White + Croatian + Serbian + Portuguese @ 1.178750
    14 Irish + Irish + Macedonian + Portuguese @ 1.180291
    15 Scottish + Hungarian + Macedonian + Portuguese @ 1.191980
    16 Polish + Norwegian + Portuguese + Greek_Thessaly @ 1.197330
    17 North_German + Slovenian + Montenegrin + Portuguese @ 1.199262
    18 North_German + Hungarian + Romanian + Portuguese @ 1.199430
    19 Slovenian + South_German + Serbian + Portuguese @ 1.213212
    20 Polish + North_German + Portuguese + Greek_Thessaly @ 1.214472



     

    1 Norwegian @ 19.798374
    2 Greek @ 21.205164
    3 Sicilian @ 28.451424
    4 Russian @ 31.049303
    5 Turks_Istanbul @ 34.395576
    6 Finnish @ 35.517170
    7 Estonian @ 37.618797
    8 Turks_Balikesir @ 38.682121
    9 Turks_Aydin @ 38.747105
    10 Lithuanian @ 38.928043
    11 Turkmen_Afghan @ 43.494293
    12 Uzbek @ 44.225742
    13 Kurds_N @ 44.282520
    14 Kurds_C @ 44.331623
    15 Tajik_Pomiri @ 44.437351
    16 Turks_Adana @ 45.077026
    17 Turks_Kayseri @ 45.655128
    18 Iraqi_Chaldeans @ 46.705856
    19 Kurds_F @ 46.833839
    20 Kurds_E @ 47.022793

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek +50% Norwegian @ 5.383189


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek +25% Norwegian +25% Norwegian @ 5.383189


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Greek + Greek + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 5.383189
    2 Adygei + Estonian + Estonian + Stuttgart @ 5.450416
    3 BA_Sintashta + Norwegian + Sardinian + Turks_Trabzon @ 5.488712
    4 Corded_Ware_LN + Norwegian + Sardinian + Turks_Trabzon @ 5.488712
    5 Adygei + Estonian + Lithuanian + Stuttgart @ 5.533626
    6 BA_Sintashta + Greek + Sardinian + Tajik_Pomiri @ 5.649039
    7 Corded_Ware_LN + Greek + Sardinian + Tajik_Pomiri @ 5.649039
    8 Adygei + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Stuttgart @ 5.652093
    9 Greek + Norwegian + Norwegian + Turks_Istanbul @ 5.924913
    10 Adygei + Finnish + Lithuanian + Stuttgart @ 5.929885
    11 Adygei + Estonian + Finnish + Stuttgart @ 5.959781
    12 Adygei + Lithuanian + Russian + Sardinian @ 6.016831
    13 BA_Sintashta + Greek + Sardinian + Turks_Istanbul @ 6.036592
    14 Corded_Ware_LN + Greek + Sardinian + Turks_Istanbul @ 6.036592
    15 BA_Sintashta + Sardinian + Sicilian + Tajik_Pomiri @ 6.070326
    16 Corded_Ware_LN + Sardinian + Sicilian + Tajik_Pomiri @ 6.070326
    17 Abkhasian + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 6.084281
    18 BA_Sintashta + Sardinian + Turks_Istanbul + Turks_Istanbul @ 6.098576
    19 Corded_Ware_LN + Sardinian + Turks_Istanbul + Turks_Istanbul @ 6.098576
    20 Abkhasian + Estonian + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 6.112906


    I hope I used the spoiler thing right. but as you can see, depending upon which calculator model I use and which oracle choice is used, I get some Scandinavian as a primary population. that seems to indicate a favorable chance of my English/Scottish/North German heritage to be influenced by the I1 would it not? I know this isn't a substitute for another test.

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  15. #28
    Gold Member Class
    Posts
    1,472
    Sex
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Ethnicity
    mixed European
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA
    Dad: R1b/L21/DF63
    mtDNA
    K2b2

    Autosomal doesn't tell you anything about YDNA (it might suggest a mystery in some cases, that's all).

    R1b is extremely common in the UK, including for people with some Scandinavian heritage (lots of people have Scandinavian heritage and it's not from their dad's dad's dad's dad's and so on). Also, my cousin whose patrilineal line is actually Scandinavian is R-U106. You have no idea without testing.

    Besides, most fun thing about Y-lines is getting more into the specifics, like people are talking about here. Test (or try the WeGene).
    Last edited by msmarjoribanks; 09-07-2018 at 12:40 PM.

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  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    First, I'd like to add my thanks to mwauthy for starting this thread, which is seeing some excellent comments and observations. Posting yesterday made me go back to YFull to see if I had any new matches. I haven't, but they've removed the "new" tag from my sample and that of my Swedish cousin and in the process have recalibrated the TMRCA date. We now have 1,280 ybp, which is the year 738 under their methodology. Basically then, while this is closer to 865 than it is to 500, it is only an estimate so everything's up for grabs again regarding Anglo-Saxon or Viking roots. Fascinating and frustrating at the same time!
    I agree with other posters about the importance of evidence and I'll have to hope for a number of new matches before drawing conclusions.
    I was fascinated by Doug's insights and look forward to more aDNA from the Anglo-Saxons (the study on an AS cemetery in Cambridgeshire should be coming up relatively soon). So far we only have one ancient AS sample and he was I1 (as Doug and others say, much, much more data is needed to build an accurate picture).
    I'm very pleased so far that I tested Big Y this year, in particular because I feel it's given me the knowledge that my ancestors came to England in one of the Germanic waves of the first millennium or so (my TMRCA with the match in Sweden and more distant cousins in north Germany at 2,500 ybp). I've long been aware of cultural links between Scandinavia and Britain that date back to the Neolithic and Bronze Age (parallels between, for example, the Medway tombs and some in Scandinavia; and solar motifs on rock carvings in Derbyshire and Scandinavia, for example) so at least I feel I can rule such an origin out now. In itself, Z140 and some other I1 subclades look old enough for bearers to have arrived in England in prehistory, as well as with the more obvious AS, Viking and Norman migrations.
    This is especially true since TMRCAs are not exact and can have a margin of error of several hundred years.

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  19. #30
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    @ JerryS, As msmarjoribanks was saying you can’t use autosomal data to infer Y haplogroup assignment. I have a friend who is 100% British ancestry with a large percentage of Scandinavian influence and he was assigned E-V13.

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