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Thread: Extinction of Old Prussians

  1. #31
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    Michał,
    thank you for your balanced and reticent words.
    I will find a way.

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     Bollox79 (12-24-2018)

  3. #32
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    Ok, if there are so many family names that refer to old-Prussians in your genealogy, this means you probably have significant old-prussian related ancestry.
    But it just cannot happen that 78% Russians have Baltic ancestry, right? 66% of Ukrainians having Baltic ancestry also doesn't sound reasonable. This means that anyway we cannot trust MyHeritage Baltic estimations.
    I do not think they in MyHeritage have any ancient old-Prussian DNA samples implemented into their model. They work with modern populations. And ancestors of old-Prussians mostly call themselves German, in less cases Polish or Lithuanians. I guess, they consider to be "Baltic" some genetic variants that are common both for slavs and balts.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    I guess, they consider to be "Baltic" some genetic variants that are common both for slavs and balts.
    Genetic similarities between Balts (Lithuanians, Latvian), Estonians, nieghbouring Slavs come from DNA these ethnicities share inherited from common ancestors lived in the region few thousand years ago.
    Target populations for Baltic ethnicity at MyHeritage were Lithuanians, Latvians and possibly Estonians?

    PS On the map large proportion in Kazakhastan is from eastern Slavs that live in the country.

     


    Last edited by Volat; 12-17-2018 at 07:45 AM.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    Genetic similarities between Balts (Lithuanians, Latvian), Estonians, nieghbouring Slavs come from DNA these ethnicities share inherited from common ancestors lived in the region few thousand years ago.
    This might also be some ancestry of a population group that was absorbed by Slavs at the time of early Slav expansion. You can see, this ancestry is less common in Czech Republic and in Slovakia, but very common in Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    Target populations for Baltic ethnicity at MyHeritage were Lithuanians, Latvians and possibly Estonians?
    As you can see on the map on MyHeritage, all the three republics are rounded when you select Balt ethnicity. I guess that means that all three of them are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    On the map large proportion in Kazakhastan is from eastern Slavs that live in the country.
    Yes, because of eastern Slavs and because of mixed mariages between slavs and Kazakhs.

  6. #35
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    Balts are common in Belarus? We have lived next to each other in the last 2,000 years, ever since history was recorded.
    Lithuanians and Belarusians are giving difficult times to each other. At the same time, they are curious about each other. I was born in the region (1960s-70s km) in which Dzukai live.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volat View Post
    Balts are common in Belarus? We have lived next to each other in the last 2,000 years, ever since history was recorded.
    Lithuanians and Belarusians are giving difficult times to each other. At the same time, they are curious about each other. I was born in the region (1960s-70s km) in which Dzukai live.
    There are actually very few people in Belarus who call themselves ethnically Lithuanians (just about 5000 out of 9 mln). There where no mass mixed marriages between Belorussians and Lithuanians in the Soviet time like they where between Russians and Belorussians. Maybe there where more mixed marriages before XX century, but anyway about 90% Belorussians having Baltic ancestry sounds too high.
    I have heart, that Slavic minorities in Lithuania (Polish, Belarus and Russians - all of them) feel not very comfortable and even oppressed.
    In the Soviet times there was no border between Belarus and Lithuania, now there is border and visa regime.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    There are actually very few people in Belarus who call themselves ethnically Lithuanians (just about 5000 out of 9 mln). There where no mass mixed marriages between Belorussians and Lithuanians in the Soviet time like they where between Russians and Belorussians. Maybe there where more mixed marriages before XX century, but anyway about 90% Belorussians having Baltic ancestry sounds too high.
    I have heart, that Slavic minorities in Lithuania (Polish, Belarus and Russians - all of them) feel not very comfortable and even oppressed.
    In the Soviet times there was no border between Belarus and Lithuania, now there is border and visa regime.
    Balts first adopted Belarusian (east Slavic identity to be precise , as back the self-identification term (ethnonym) Belarusian didn't exist). Later many Belarusians and Lithuanians adopted Polish identity. Not long ago Baltic dialects were spoken in all of Grodno region. Today, Poles of eastern Lithuania and Belarus are ethnographically Belarusian speaking Belarusian at home natively. They are Poles because they adopted Roman Catholic religion. In churches they listened to services in Polish. It was not uncommon in Belarusian and Lithuanian families one sibling adopting Polish identity and another sibling Belarusian or Lithuanian.

    This is Vilnia governate in Russian empire that took control over the state - the Grand Duchy (in commonwealth with kingdom of Poland at the time) only in late 18th century. The last division was in 1795.
     


    Vitiebsk governate included Latgalia (eastern Latvia).

    Map of Baltic dialects in the 16th century as per linguist Zinkivicius
     


    More than 80% of hydronyms on the territory of Belarus are Baltic in origin according to Russian linguists Toporov and Trubachev. They published a monograph on the subject in the 60s.

    Anyway, here is a short and a good article on subject : http://pawet.net/library/history/bel...%81%D0%B8.html
    Last edited by Volat; 12-24-2018 at 05:11 PM.

  9. #38
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    Linguist from Poland on Poles of Vilnius region , who speak Belarusian. They speak a dialect similar to literary Belarusian, as it 's based on dialects spoken between Minsk and Vilnius

    Na Wileńszczyźnie wiele osób rozmawiało ze mną „po prostemu”, ale prawie wszyscy deklarowali narodowość polską – powiedział w rozmowie z zw.lt Mirosław Jankowiak, polonista, białorutenista, pracownik naukowy Instytutu Slawistyki PAN.

    http://zw.lt/opinie/jankowiak-mowa-p...-bialoruskiej/

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