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Thread: G25 PCA Plots

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    I don't understand how can Longobard samples from Hungary/Szolad plot among the North Italians before their migration to North Italy.
    It can mean that the population living in that time in Hungary was similar to today's Italians.
    thats in the readily available paper these people are not the longobards{kindred-clans/warriors} but roman provincials subjugated by the longobards; and it seems to have been a bit of a crazy world back in the sixth century when 6th pannonians looked like modern north italians and 6th north italians like modern cypriots, acc to paper; and with slavs magyars and longobards respectively you have the game changers and the actual importance and echo(so far greatly neglected) of the 'migration period'
    Geno2.0NG 51%SEurope 19%WCEurope 13%Scandinavia 5%AsiaMinor 4%EEurope 4%GB&Ireland 3%Arabia myOrigins 52%WCEurope 40%SEEurope 5%BritishIsles 3%WMiddleEast DNA.Land 49%NWEuropean 27%SEuropean 13%MedIslander 11%Sardinian myHeritage 51.8%NWEuropean 33.2%Italian 7.9%Greek 7.1%Balkan gencove 29%NItaly 19%EMed 15%NBritishIsles 12%SWEurope 10%NCEurope 9%Scandinavia 6%NEEurope GenePlazaK29 54.4%NWEurope 37.6%GreekAlbania 5.6%WAsian 2.4%SWAsia

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    I don't understand how can Longobard samples from Hungary/Szolad plot among the North Italians before their migration to North Italy.
    It can mean that the population living in that time in Hungary was similar to today's Italians.
    Depends on which samples we are talking about... as the more "Southern European" samples among the "Longobards" were probably not "Longobards" if you get my meaning... I'd say if they show up as more Southern Euro per their autosomal - they were more likely "locals" and the Northern Euro men were the barbarians ;-p. I assume you are talking about the Szolad samples that plot in the Italian zone for example SZ 32, 36, 43, 28 etc - they are on the outside or "marginal" area of the burial ground while the people of Northern Euro ancestry are in the middle (the founding burial and flanking burials) so more likely locals I think! 41467_2018_6024_Fig1_HTML.png

    Edit: I noticed your last sentence says pretty much the same thing - that the "locals" of Pannonia of that period were perhaps more similar to Northern Italians :-)! I suppose that Northern Italy is not that far away from Pannonia and "Romans" (would be similar to Italians right)? settled there at one time or another?
    Last edited by Bollox79; 09-16-2018 at 12:17 AM.
    Y-DNA: 4th GGF Adam Weaver born 1785 in Pennsylvania - Sergeant in US 17th Infantry, War of 1812: R1b-U106-Z381-Z156-Z305/306/307-Z304-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004/FGC14818/FGC14823-FGC14816/FGC14817. I share these SNPs w/ York Gladiator 6drif-3!

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget Dana b. 1843 Ireland - T2b2b - Ireland, Scandinavia and Hungary - T2b female warrior Grave Bj 581 near Birka, Sweden. Relative of King Bela III of Hungary (his Y-DNA and autosomal kinsman buried near him had mtDNA T2b2b1)!

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    thats in the readily available paper these people are not the longobards{kindred-clans/warriors} but roman provincials subjugated by the longobards; and it seems to have been a bit of a crazy world back in the sixth century when 6th pannonians looked like modern north italians and 6th north italians like modern cypriots, acc to paper; and with slavs magyars and longobards respectively you have the game changers and the actual importance and echo(so far greatly neglected) of the 'migration period'
    In the next year or so I am really hoping these Migration papers continue ;-). Hopefully a couple more before the end of the year!!! It's been a great year so far for aDNA!!!
    Last edited by Bollox79; 09-16-2018 at 12:21 AM.
    Y-DNA: 4th GGF Adam Weaver born 1785 in Pennsylvania - Sergeant in US 17th Infantry, War of 1812: R1b-U106-Z381-Z156-Z305/306/307-Z304-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004/FGC14818/FGC14823-FGC14816/FGC14817. I share these SNPs w/ York Gladiator 6drif-3!

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget Dana b. 1843 Ireland - T2b2b - Ireland, Scandinavia and Hungary - T2b female warrior Grave Bj 581 near Birka, Sweden. Relative of King Bela III of Hungary (his Y-DNA and autosomal kinsman buried near him had mtDNA T2b2b1)!

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  7. #14
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    HAH, I'm not too far from that KER_1 outlier on this plot! XD
    1 Jew_Ashkenazy_Poland +Volga-German Custom:AGUser_Eihwaz 1.7783 85.83 14.17

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  9. #15
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    Excellent yet again.

    Makes me wonder though if Collegno CL84 was really a Langobard or just an Irishman who got lost
    LivingDNA: 97.6% British Isles, 2.4% Scandinavia. 45.1% Central England related.
    AncestryDNA: 53% England/Wales/NW Euro, 47% Ireland/Scotland

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  11. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    thats in the readily available paper these people are not the longobards{kindred-clans/warriors} but roman provincials subjugated by the longobards; and it seems to have been a bit of a crazy world back in the sixth century when 6th pannonians looked like modern north italians and 6th north italians like modern cypriots, acc to paper; and with slavs magyars and longobards respectively you have the game changers and the actual importance and echo(so far greatly neglected) of the 'migration period'
    These 'roman provincials' look pretty like modern North Dutch.....


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  13. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    Put your glasses or magnify.
    Could you please put me on the plot.
    Thanks.

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  15. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cascio View Post
    Could you please put me on the plot.
    Thanks.
    And your G25 scaled values are?
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
    Slovenian 6.25%
    Unknown 6.25%
    E. Europe 35.7%
    Balkan 34.4%
    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

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  17. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    I don't understand how can Longobard samples from Hungary/Szolad plot among the North Italians before their migration to North Italy.
    It can mean that the population living in that time in Hungary was similar to today's Italians.
    According the paper, they might be non local. Furthermore Z27 belongs to Z2 'kindred', in this respect he could be mixed, as suggested by his autosomal admixture (Eurogenes K13):

    1 54.8% Central_Greek + 45.2% Norwegian @ 2.05

    Comparison of genetic and strontium isotope data

    We also generated new strontium isotope data (87Sr/86Sr) for Collegno to complement the existing data from Szólád14 and analyzed them within the context of our genomic data in order to better understand patterns of immigration to these two sites (Supplementary Note 16, Supplementary Figures 97–104, Supplementary Tables 9-13). Within Szólád we find that adult individuals with both predominantly central/northern and southern genomic ancestry possess similar non-local signatures (Alt et al.14 described this as Range I) (Fig. 5). This might suggest that individuals from both ancestry groups immigrated into Szólád together despite the differences in material culture. However, we also note generally a quite diverse non-local range amongst adults with central/northern ancestry (for example SZ4 and SZ16 are extreme outliers), suggesting that not all individuals originated from the same location prior to settling in Szólád
    .
    Last edited by Camulogčne Rix; 09-16-2018 at 07:18 PM.

    Closest ancient individual: 'Lombard' from Medieval_Hungary_Szolad (SZ 27)
    Eurogenes G25 (Bronze Age): 33% Beaker_Britain+32% Beaker_Central_Europe +20% Anatolia_BA
    +12% Beaker_The_Netherlands+3% Remedello_BA

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  19. #20
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    Yes, Hungarian locals in the 6th century were probably autosomally similar to today's Italians. Hungarians today are essentially mix of Slavic and Germanic peoples with very little genetic heritage of their Finno-Ugric ancestors.
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
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    Slovenian 6.25%
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    E. Europe 35.7%
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    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
    Croatian 2.39
    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
    Trace 1%

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