Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 39

Thread: Historical Ancient Punjab - Its Extent and People ( Open Discussion)

  1. #1

    Historical Ancient Punjab - Its Extent and People ( Open Discussion)

    History:

    The region was originally called Sapta Sindhu,the Vedic land of the seven rivers flowing into the ocean.The Sanskrit name for the region, as mentioned in the Ramayana and Mahabharata for example, was Panchanada which means "Land of the Five Rivers", and was translated to Persian as Punjab after the Muslim conquests.The later name of the region, Punjab, is a compound of two Persian words,Panj (five) and āb (water), introduced to the region by the Turko-Persian conquerors of India, and more formally popularised during the Mughal Empire.Punjab thus means "The Land of Five Waters", referring to the rivers Jhelum, Chenab, Ravi, Sutlej, and Beas. All are tributaries of the Indus River, the Chenab being the largest.

    Political geography :

    There are two main definitions of the Punjab region: the 1947 definition and the older 18461849 definition. A third definition incorporates both the 1947 and the older definitions but also includes northern Rajasthan on a linguistic basis and ancient river movements

    Map of Punjab during the time of British Era ( early 1900's)





    Discussion :

    What were the western boundaries of Punjab before the Turkomen and Afghan Invasions? I will contribute too but would also like your opinion.

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Saad2016 For This Useful Post:

     aaronbee2010 (09-19-2018),  misanthropy (09-18-2018),  MonkeyDLuffy (09-18-2018),  poi (09-18-2018)

  3. #2
    Based on the map above if we want to divide Punjabi in to central, western (Pahari) , eastern and Southern Seraiki Punjab then this would be the map :




    Central Punjab = Area between River Jhelum and Sutlej River ( Part of Pakistani Punjab) - red circle in the map
    East Punjab = Area East of Sutlej ( Indian Punjab)- Black circle
    Western Punjab ( also called Pahari Punjab by the forum users) Green circle
    Southern Seraiki Punjab ( Multan and adjacent districts) Blue Circle

  4. #3
    Till the discussion builds on - An entertainment break....a Song on Partition of Punjab based theme when millions of punjabies got displaced and crossed the border due to 1947 partition riots.


  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Saad2016 For This Useful Post:

     MonkeyDLuffy (09-19-2018)

  6. #4
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,274
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a

    Pakistan Azad Kashmir India
    Speaking of Punjab, I recall a poem central to the idea of Punjab, which is the Takht Lahore(an idea conceived by Baba Bulla Shah, who referred to it as the Takht for his Murshid, Inayat Shah Qadri, was a Lahori).
    Ucche burj Lahore de
    te heth vagay darya(Raavi)
    Aithe Raniyan baehndiyan baariyan,
    Ranglay paehn kabaah
    Aithay katak faseelay fauj de
    utray lakh sawa
    dooron harqat vekhde
    neray vi na ja...

    Over time, several variants of this poem have been composed.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rahuls77 For This Useful Post:

     MonkeyDLuffy (09-19-2018),  Saad2016 (09-19-2018)

  8. #5
    starting the discussion again. Peshawar now the capital of Khyber pakhtun khawa (KPK) province was once a city inhabited by Punjabies who were pushed east wards by the advancing "Dilazak" tribe of Afghans, from Karlanri division, who migrated from Eastern Afghanistan and settled in the plain of Peshawar by crossing Khyber pass. Even today a majority of Peshawar city speak a language called Hindko - which is a dialect of Punjabi. The modern day capital city of Peshawar was originally known in ancient times as Purushapura when the region was Hindu. Vedic texts refer to the area as the Janapada of Pushkalavati. The area was once known to be a great center of learning.

    Major H.G.Raverty, an English historian, is of opinion that Awans of Punjab, along with Ghakkars and some other tribes, are most probably ancient inhabitants of Eastern Afghanistan which were dispossessed of their territories by Afghan tribes and were gradually displaced eastward towards modern day KPK and West Punjab.

    In Khyber pakhtunkhwa, the people of Awan origin are called Hindko......the term was coined by Pashtun tribes for the original inhabitants of the region. Some of the tribes from Hindku race are now accepted as Pashtuns. The Jajis of Afghanistan and Turis of Kurram agency, are of Awan origin who used to live near Nilab on the bank of Indus on Punjab side. They used to temporarily migrate to Upper Bangash valley and were attached with Bangash tribe as Hamsaya. In 1702 they defeated Bangashs and came into possession of parachinar area and adjoining area. Another tribe of Hindko race, are Swatis of Batagram and Mansehra (not to be confused with Yousazfais) who are accepted as Pashtuns. They were ancient inhabitants of Swat before arrival of Yousafzais and also recorded in Paktun historical accounts.

    The truth of this can be verified by the existance of mandirs/stupas in Swat and adjacent areas. The ancient ruins of Taxilla and Gandhara also point to a Punjabi Buddhist history.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Saad2016 For This Useful Post:

     Rahuls77 (09-19-2018)

  10. #6
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,274
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a

    Pakistan Azad Kashmir India
    Pre-Pashtun Swatis such as the Tanolis?

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Rahuls77 For This Useful Post:

     Saad2016 (09-19-2018)

  12. #7
    I know that most of you would be surprised by the above claims about the western most enthnic boundaries of Punjab but here is an excerpt from the Govt of KPK website :

    The Khyber Pakhtunkhwa is populated by a large variety of tribes, sub-tribes and clans, each with its own network of ties but unified by the collective of being called Pathan or Pashtuns, imbued with the characteristic force of character, bravery and shrewdness. Over the years, however, the larger towns have become a mix of various other peoples from Afghanistan, Kashmir and the rest of Pakistan, just as many Pathans have migrated to, or work in, the larger towns of Punjab, Sindh and Baluchistan.

    The Pathan way of life still maintains the age-old, time-tested code of behavior known as PukhtunWali. Honor, revenge and hospitality are the cardinal principles while the Jirga, or tribal assembly, plays a potent part in the resolution of issues according to Riwaj or tradition.The practices of"Nikkat", "Lungj" and "Moajjab" are still strong, binding and regulatory.

    The population contains several ethnological sections, representing the deposits formed by different streams of immigration or invasion. Most numerous and important are the Pathans (Pukhtana), the majority of the agricultural population in Peshawar, Kohat and Bannu, while beyond the administrative border they are in exclusive possession from Chitral to the Gomal. In Hazara, Gujars and other tribes of Indian origin dominate, while Dera Ismail Khan is inhabited mainly by Jats.

    Pathan is not now a racial term, whatever its original significance may have been. It nowdenotes status, and is said in Swat and Dir to describe one who possesses a share in the tribal estate and who has therefore a voice in the village and tribal councils. The Pathan tribes are mainly of Uranian origin, but many of their sections are affiliated clans of Hindki of indigenous descent, others of Syed (Arabian), and a few possibly of Turkish origin.

    Next in numerical importance come the Awans or Vassals mainly in Hazara and the Peshawar valley. The Gujars also live in Hazara. They are also numerous in Dir, Swat, and Bajaur, where they speak Pashtu, through on the borders of Dir and Asmar they retain their Indian speech. Other less numerous tribes are the Jats, mostly in Dera Ismail Khan, Syeds, Tanaolis, Malliars, Dhunds, Balochs, Rajputsm Sheikhs, Kharrals, Mughals, Qureshis, Baghbans, Parachas, Kassabs, and Gakhars. Of Hindu castes, the ArorasKhattris, and Brahmans are important. In Jandol and Maidan are various other tribes of Jafir descent converted to Islam, and now reckoned as Pathans.

    Of the artisan classes the most numerous are the Tarkhans or carpenters, Some of whom raised under British rule to the status of a professional class as trained engineers next to them in numerical strength are the Julahas (weavers), then come the Lahore (black-smiths). Mochis (leather-workers and shoemakers) Kumhars (potters and brick-burners) Sonars (goldsmiths) And Teelis (oil-pressers
    - See more at: http://kp.gov.pk/page/races_and_trib....rVHv464J.dpuf

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Saad2016 For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (09-19-2018),  Rahuls77 (09-19-2018)

  14. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rahuls77 View Post
    Pre-Pashtun Swatis such as the Tanolis?
    Yes them too actually a lot of Punjabi Hindkos got pashtunized near the western boundaries. Peshawar, Dera Ismail Khan and Swat are examples. In other thread, I raised this historical truth but was argued upon that these must be outside Punjabi settlers who settled in to KPK during time of Ranjeet Sing. But historical records show otherwise, infact these were the original indigenous people of this area who were displaced by the invading armies during the 11th century.
    I have quoted references this time so that it leaves no room for any ambiguity.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Saad2016 For This Useful Post:

     Rahuls77 (09-19-2018)

  16. #9
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,274
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a

    Pakistan Azad Kashmir India
    Interesting bit that you shared about the Turis.
    I guess there is something native and migrant to the Sarbanri and Karlanri divisions too.
    Pashtun history and origins are forever obscured, because of the Abrahamic genealogies adopted about 5 centuries ago.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Rahuls77 For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (09-19-2018)

  18. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rahuls77 View Post
    Interesting bit that you shared about the Turis.
    I guess there is something native and migrant to the Sarbanri and Karlanri divisions too.
    Pashtun history and origins are forever obscured, because of the Abrahamic genealogies adopted about 5 centuries ago.
    so true, actually there was a very good book written by a paktun author about various tribes of KPK and their conquests. My interest in that book was that it mentioned the local people whom the Paktun displaced or they were ultimately Paktunized. It was a great book was available online too. I am wondering if any forum member can refresh my memory......

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Ancient Celtic Y dna discussion
    By Principe in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 01-16-2021, 10:47 PM
  2. R2 - Ancient DNA Discussion
    By Tomasso29 in forum R2-M479
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-05-2020, 02:06 PM
  3. Replies: 21
    Last Post: 12-30-2019, 02:36 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-29-2015, 11:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •