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Thread: New Eurogenes Celtic vs Germanic PCA

  1. #1111
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    So it looks like ORE-A-1 fits in a bit better with the Britons than the Gaels. This is interesting considering the drift it shares between the north of Ireland and the west of Scotland. While it looks like this could be some kind of Brythonic connection, when looking at the other regions of Scotland, drift with regions like Aberdeenshire, Sco-Ire, and Inverness is very low, lower than that of other samples listed as Gaels. Perhaps instead it is indicative of the range of the Gaelic genetic type, or even indicative that what forumites such as alan claim that there wouldn't really be a genetic difference between the Britons, Gaels, Picts, ect.
    Just some thoughts on the matter to pass the time until we get a look at that Cassidy paper, really.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English (possibly containing some Welsh ancestry) 31.25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, Eastern German 12.5%, Eastern European (Likely Polish possibly including Romanian) 12.5%, French 7.81%, Native American (Saulteaux and Assiniboine) 2.34%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be traced with certainty. With certainty, there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English.

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  3. #1112
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    As always, I'm rather late to the party, and just received my Celtic vs Germanic PCA from Davidski. Could someone give me their thoughts on what this shows, being that I'm very new to this whole PCA business? Am I smack bang in the middle between the Germanic and Celtic Groupings? Is this fairly standard for a Southern English chap? My known Ancestry is 75% South East England, 12.5% Welsh and 12.5% Devon, although LivingDNA gives me distinctly less Devonish and Welsh.......

    Celto-Germanic_PCA.png
    Last edited by jadegreg; 12-05-2019 at 02:29 PM. Reason: not complete

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  5. #1113
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    Looks standard to me. Best thing would be to look through the thread and compare
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English (possibly containing some Welsh ancestry) 31.25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, Eastern German 12.5%, Eastern European (Likely Polish possibly including Romanian) 12.5%, French 7.81%, Native American (Saulteaux and Assiniboine) 2.34%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be traced with certainty. With certainty, there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English.

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  7. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Looks standard to me. Best thing would be to look through the thread and compare
    Exactly what I shall do then! Thank you

  8. #1115
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadegreg View Post
    As always, I'm rather late to the party, and just received my Celtic vs Germanic PCA from Davidski. Could someone give me their thoughts on what this shows, being that I'm very new to this whole PCA business? Am I smack bang in the middle between the Germanic and Celtic Groupings? Is this fairly standard for a Southern English chap? My known Ancestry is 75% South East England, 12.5% Welsh and 12.5% Devon, although LivingDNA gives me distinctly less Devonish and Welsh.......

    Celto-Germanic_PCA.png
    You're in the same ballpark as me. I'm just pulled a little more towards the Isles (raw data file 23andme v4). Whereabouts is your Welsh ancestry from? Mine is mainly Breconshire down into Monmouthshire. There are not that many forum members with recent Welsh descent as I guess you've realised.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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  10. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Some PCAs with the Roman Britons removed. I wanted to compare the Icelandic Gaels to the Iron Age Britons.

    Attachment 34980Attachment 34981
    Left = all 25 components selected. Right = only PC1 and PC2.

    I've colored the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh, as various shades of green. The English are red.
    Just for fun my Mom (J_Smith) and I (R_Smith) are rubbing shoulders with a few of these samples! Paternal aunt H_Smith_Wrenn is between English and Dutch.
    Screenshot 2019-12-05 at 2.57.58 PM.png
     
    Estimated ancestry after reviewing Ancestry.com, 23&Me, FTDNA My Origins, Living DNA and known family history:
    33% English, 27% Scottish, 18% Welsh, 18% Irish, 4% German/Netherlands

    Y-DNA leads to Isle of Skye, Scottish Highlands: R1b>M343>L278>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151/L11>P312>Z290>L21/M529>DF13>L513/DF1>S5668>A7>Z21253> S7834 > S7828 > BY11203 > BY11186 (about 320-550 years old)

    MTDNA leads to Glamorgan, South Wales: K1a4a1f

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  12. #1117
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    Okay just got mine.

    YSEQ: Y-DNA A0-T-A1-A1b-BT-CT-CF-F-GHIJK-HIJK-IJK-K-K2-K2b-P-P1-P-P337-P-P226-R-R-Y482-R1-R1a-M459-M198-M417-CTS4385-L664-S2894-S2880 "All known downstream branches have been confirmed negative."
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    Cephalic Index: 70.64
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  14. #1118
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    Hi Jonik W

    Yup, certainly does not seem to be many of us! My Welsh ancestry is virtually all from Pembrokeshire (Haverford West and Fishguard so far), but to be honest I have not got too far back down this line, given that the family name is Lewis! Also have North Welsh creeping into my Devonshire line (Cadwalladr), though I'm yet to track her ancestry down yet! I'm wondering if I there is a larger Scandinavian component here due to the Pembrokeshire origins.

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  16. #1119
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    Generalissimo add lots of samples to the CvsG spreadsheet:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/15jg...QoZ7wM0R3/view

    The whole spreadsheet doesn't deliver much extra information for me. Pen=0,001

    "sample": "Test1:Finn",
    "fit": 1.5618,
    "Germanic_Germany_Medieval": 19,
    "Germanic_Swedish": 15.8,
    "Ancient_England_Roman": 14.6,
    "Germanic_Norwegian": 11.8,
    "Germanic_German": 7.4,
    "Germanic_Orcadian": 6.4,
    "Germanic_Dutch_North": 5.2,
    "Germanic_Scottish": 5,
    "Germanic_Dutch_Central": 4.6,
    "Celtic_Irish": 2.8,
    "Ancient_England_Anglo-Saxon": 2.4,
    "Ancient_Nordic_IA": 2.2,
    "Germanic_English": 1.8,
    "Germanic_Icelandic": 0.8,
    "Germanic_Dutch_South": 0.2,

    "closestDistances": [
    "Germanic_Germany_Medieval:STR_486: 2.757553",
    "Germanic_Orcadian:Orcadian3: 2.831660",
    "Ancient_England_Roman:6DT22: 2.869164",
    "Germanic_German:German5: 3.039210",
    "Germanic_Icelandic:Icelandic1: 3.050410",

    "sample": "Test2:FinnMom",
    "fit": 1.4648,
    "Germanic_Germany_Medieval": 25.4,
    "Germanic_German": 17.2,
    "Germanic_Norwegian": 17,
    "Germanic_Dutch_South": 12.8,
    "Germanic_Dutch_North": 11.4,
    "Germanic_German_East": 3.6,
    "Celtic_Irish": 3.2,
    "Germanic_Icelandic": 3,
    "Ancient_England_Roman": 1.6,
    "Germanic_Dutch_Central": 1,
    "Germanic_Scottish": 1,
    "Germanic_Austrian": 0.8,
    "Romance_French_Brittany": 0.8,
    "Celtic_Welsh": 0.4,
    "Romance_French_Nord": 0.4,
    "Germanic_English": 0.2,
    "Germanic_Swedish": 0.2,

    "Germanic_Norwegian:Norwegian3: 2.582363",
    "Germanic_Germany_Medieval:STR_486: 2.778921",
    "Germanic_Germany_Medieval:ALH_1: 2.822463",
    "Ancient_England_Roman:6DT22: 2.840810",
    "Romance_French_Brittany:B_3: 2.865205",

    "sample": "Test3:FinnDad",
    "fit": 1.1454,
    "Germanic_Scottish": 24,
    "Germanic_Swedish": 19.6,
    "Germanic_German": 16.2,
    "Germanic_Dutch_North": 12.6,
    "Celtic_Welsh": 5.4,
    "Germanic_English": 5,
    "Germanic_Dutch_Central": 3.4,
    "Germanic_German_East": 3.2,
    "Germanic_Germany_Medieval": 3,
    "Ancient_Nordic_IA": 2.8,
    "Romance_French_Nord": 2,
    "Ancient_England_Roman": 1.2,
    "Germanic_Dutch_South": 0.4,
    "Germanic_Icelandic": 0.4,
    "Germano-Romance_Belgian": 0.4,
    "Celtic_Irish": 0.2,
    "Germanic_Norwegian": 0.2,

    "Romance_French_Brittany:B_78: 2.505274",
    "Celtic_Welsh:Welsh1: 2.599712",
    "Germanic_Scottish:Scottish17: 2.602364",
    "Germanic_Norwegian:Norwegian3: 2.678003",
    "Germanic_English:English6: 2.785714",


    As you most probably know I'm stocky North Dutch. Plotting only the ancients delivers this picture.


    As such nothing wrong with that. But the Anglo-Saxons are quite on distance. I guess too much on distance.

    This chances when I bring in the Sigtunian Vikings. IMO this is a better plot! The Anglo-Saxons come very close now. More accurate regarding my origins.


    But I miss the Sigtunians in his list.....(and how about the Iceland Vikings and Gaels?).
    Last edited by Finn; 12-14-2019 at 05:39 PM.

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  18. #1120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Generalissimo adde lots of samples to the CvsG spreadsheet:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/15jg...QoZ7wM0R3/view

    The whole spreadsheet doesn't deliver much extra information for me. Pen=0,001

    Thanks for pointing this out Finn! Very Interesting!

    And mine:

    JMcB_default
    1000 cycles
    500 batches

    Fit: 0.8778

    Romance_French_Brittany: 17.2
    Celtic_Irish: 15.8
    Germanic_Scottish: 13.4
    Romance_French_Nord: 12.4
    Germano-Romance_Belgian: 11
    Germanic_English: 4.4
    Germanic_German: 4
    Germanic_Dutch_North: 3.8
    Germanic_Austrian: 2.6
    Romance_French_Alsace: 2.6
    Celtic_Welsh": 2
    Germanic_Dutch_South: 2
    Germanic_Norwegian: 1.8
    Germanic_Germany_Medieval: 1.4
    Germanic_German_East: 1.2
    Ancient_England_Anglo-Saxon: 1
    Ancient_Hallstatt_Bylany: 1
    Romance_French_Auvergne: 1



    And with Pen 0 and the same settings


    JMcB
    Fit: 0.5273

    Germanic_Scottish: 32.4
    Celtic_Irish: 11.6
    Germanic_Dutch_South: 10.4
    Germanic_German: 8.4
    Romance_French_Auvergne: 7.8
    Romance_French_Brittany: 7.6
    Germanic_Dutch_North: 6.8
    Germanic_Norwegian: 5.6
    Germanic_German_East: 4
    Germano-Romance_Belgian: 3
    Ancient_England_Anglo-Saxon: 1.8


    By the way, did you ever get my scaled G25 coordinates? I edited them into my post after I saw your request but I’m not sure if you saw it.



    And Vahaduo


    Target: JMcB
    Distance: 0.8765% / 0.00876522 | ADC: 0.5x
    31.2 Romance
    28.0 Celtic
    25.4 Germanic
    15.4 Germano-Romance



    Distance to: JMcB
    0.02206558 Romance:French_Nord:N_64
    0.02212239 Celtic:Irish:Irish16
    0.02251333 Celtic:Welsh:WalesBK68
    0.02301326 Romance:French_Brittany:B_1
    0.02443481 Romance:French_Nord:N_2
    0.02471255 Romance:French_Alsace:A_25
    0.02529704 Germano-Romance:Belgian:Belgian19
    0.02668483 Celtic:Welsh:WalesBK54
    0.02685591 Romance:French_Brittany:B_32
    0.02696683 Ancient:England_Roman:6DT22
    0.02723802 Celtic:Welsh:WalesBK58
    0.02766116 Germanic:Icelandic:Icelandic4
    0.02774797 Romance:French_Nord:N_18
    0.02780198 Romance:French_Brittany:B_85
    0.02790340 Germanic:German_East:German_East11
    0.02797052 Romance:French_Alsace:A_8
    0.02804603 Celtic:Welsh:WalesBK33
    0.02815511 Germanic:English:English5
    0.02821223 Germanic:English:English3
    0.02834590 Germanic:English:English22
    0.02845417 Germanic:English:English6
    0.02874891 Germanic:German:German5
    0.02878837 Germano-Romance:Belgian:Belgian7
    0.02881441 Germanic:Orcadian:Orcadian1
    0.02883938 Germanic:English:English9



    And among the Ancients (England_Roman + England_IA):

    B083C9FE-EBB1-405C-BAE5-88C83FA537B0.jpeg
    Last edited by JMcB; 12-14-2019 at 05:36 PM.
    Paper Trail: 43.8% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Italian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >A13252/YSEQ (circa 1630 AD).

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