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Thread: Regional G25 Neolithic vs EBA Britain

  1. #271
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    429
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    Cardiff
    Ethnicity
    NW European
    Nationality
    Welsh
    Y-DNA
    R1b-U106 (Z306/S497)
    mtDNA
    H13a1a

    England Ireland Wales European Union
    Post for MatAust21. Then I'll retire for my own health

    What a calc I made. Enjoy.

    "distance%=1.4646"
    Father_scaled
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,52.6
    French_North_Central,25
    Bosnian_Montenegrin_Serbian_Romanian_Bulgarian,8.6
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,2.2
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,2.2
    Portuguese_Spanish,2.2
    Albanian_Greek,2
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,1.4
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,1.4
    Sardinian,0.8
    Italian_South_&_Sicilian,0.6
    Italian_North_Central,0.4
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,0.2
    French_South,0.2
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,0.2

    "distance%=1.2513"
    MatAust_scaled
    French_North_Central,38
    Bosnian_Montenegrin_Serbian_Romanian_Bulgarian,23
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,12.8
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,11.8
    Albanian_Greek,4
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,3.6
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,3.2
    Portuguese_Spanish,0.8
    Basque,0.6
    Italian_South_&_Sicilian,0.6
    French_South,0.4
    Italian_North_Central,0.4
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,0.2
    Finnish,0.2
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,0.2
    Sardinian,0.2

    "distance%=1.0589"
    Mother_scaled
    Bosnian_Montenegrin_Serbian_Romanian_Bulgarian,34. 2
    French_North_Central,22.2
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,19
    Portuguese_Spanish,6.6
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,6.4
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,5.8
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,3.2
    Basque,0.8
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,0.8
    Sardinian,0.4
    French_South,0.2
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,0.2
    Italian_North_Central,0.2
    My ancestry: 53% S Eng, 2% N Eng, 39% Ire, 6% S Wal
    LivingDNA: 53% S Eng, 7% E Anglia, 15% SW Scot, 9% S Wal, 8% Brit Isles, 4.5% Basque/Sardinian/Tuscan, 3.4% Chechen/Indian/Kurdish

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  3. #272
    Gold Member Class
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    304
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    Location
    Tennessee
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Brythonic
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA
    R1b>DF27
    mtDNA
    J1c5

    United States of America England Wales Northern Ireland Scotland Normandie
    K11

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West:Belgium14
    3.218008
    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh:Scottish23
    3.339997
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West:Belgium20
    3.348013
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West:French44
    3.402162
    French_North_Central:French24
    3.451027
    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh:Scottish7
    3.453707
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South:German68
    3.457845
    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh:Irish28
    3.480290

    [1] "distance%=1.8923"

    Garimund_scaled

    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh,30.2
    French_North_Central,25.4
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,25
    French_South_&_French_Basque,12
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,4.6
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,1.6
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,1
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,0.2

    K16

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
    French_Belgian:Belgium14 Irish_Scottish_Welsh:Scottish23
    3.218008 3.339997
    French_Belgian:Belgium20 French_Belgian:French44
    3.348013 3.402162
    French_Belgian:French24 Irish_Scottish_Welsh:Scottish7
    3.451027 3.453707
    German_Czech_Austrian:German68 Irish_Scottish_Welsh:Irish28
    3.457845 3.480290

    [1] "distance%=1.8166"

    Garimund_scaled

    French_Belgian,36.2
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,34.4
    Basque,13
    German_Czech_Austrian,9.6
    Portuguese_Spanish,5.4
    Norwegian_Swedish,1
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,0.2
    Finnish,0.2

    I find your calculators to be very informative, Capitalis.

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  5. #273
    Gold Member Class
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    304
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    R1b>DF27
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    J1c5

    United States of America England Wales Northern Ireland Scotland Normandie
    I went through my files and only have a few users scaled data for comparison:

    [1] "distance%=0.8268"

    JMcB_scaled

    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,37
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,30.4
    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh,19.8
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,4
    French_South_&_French_Basque,3.8
    French_North_Central,3
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,1
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,0.8
    Finnish,0.2

    [1] "distance%=0.8133"

    JMcB_scaled

    Norwegian_Swedish,35.8
    German_Czech_Austrian,20
    French_Belgian,19.8
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,18.6
    Basque,4.6
    Finnish,0.4
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,0.4
    Portuguese_Spanish,0.2
    Sardinian,0.2

    [1] "distance%=0.9567"

    Jessie_scaled

    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh,80.8
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,14.8
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,3.8
    Finnish,0.4
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,0.2

    [1] "distance%=0.9544"

    Jessie_scaled

    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,79.4
    Norwegian_Swedish,15
    German_Czech_Austrian,5.2
    Finnish,0.2
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,0.2

    [1] "distance%=1.701"

    Garimund_mother_scaled

    French_North_Central,31.6
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,31.2
    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh,25.8
    French_South_&_French_Basque,4.6
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,2.8
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,2.2
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,1.6
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,0.2

    [1] "distance%=1.7108"

    Garimund_mother_scaled

    French_Belgian,63.6
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,24.8
    German_Czech_Austrian,6
    Basque,2.6
    Portuguese_Spanish,2.2
    Saami,0.6
    Norwegian_Swedish,0.2

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  7. #274
    Registered Users
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    993
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    Florida, USA.
    Ethnicity
    English, Scottish & Irish
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    American
    Y-DNA
    I-A13243
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    H1e2

    England Scotland Ireland United States of America Vatican Germany Schleswig-Holstein
    Quote Originally Posted by Garimund View Post
    I went through my files and only have a few users scaled data for comparison:

    [1] "distance%=0.8268"

    JMcB_scaled

    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,37
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,30.4
    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh,19.8
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,4
    French_South_&_French_Basque,3.8
    French_North_Central,3
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,1
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,0.8
    Finnish,0.2

    [1] "distance%=0.8133"

    JMcB_scaled

    Norwegian_Swedish,35.8
    German_Czech_Austrian,20
    French_Belgian,19.8
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,18.6
    Basque,4.6
    Finnish,0.4
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,0.4
    Portuguese_Spanish,0.2
    Sardinian,0.2

    [1] "distance%=0.9567"

    Jessie_scaled

    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh,80.8
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,14.8
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,3.8
    Finnish,0.4
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,0.2

    [1] "distance%=0.9544"

    Jessie_scaled

    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,79.4
    Norwegian_Swedish,15
    German_Czech_Austrian,5.2
    Finnish,0.2
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,0.2

    [1] "distance%=1.701"

    Garimund_mother_scaled

    French_North_Central,31.6
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,31.2
    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh,25.8
    French_South_&_French_Basque,4.6
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,2.8
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,2.2
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,1.6
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,0.2

    [1] "distance%=1.7108"

    Garimund_mother_scaled

    French_Belgian,63.6
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,24.8
    German_Czech_Austrian,6
    Basque,2.6
    Portuguese_Spanish,2.2
    Saami,0.6
    Norwegian_Swedish,0.2

    Thank you, Garimund, I appreciate it!
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 900 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1030 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1550 AD).

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  9. #275
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    Iowa
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    Dad: I1-P109
    mtDNA
    T1a1

    Germany United Kingdom Czech Republic Canada Canada Quebec Netherlands
    K11 Northern Europe

    [1] "penalty= 0.001"
    [1] "Ncycles= 1000"
    [1] "distance%=1.0036"

    PV_scaled

    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh,36
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,23
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,10.6
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,8.4
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,6.6
    Finnish,3.8
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,3.4
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,2.8
    French_South_&_French_Basque,2.4
    French_North_Central,2.2
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,0.8

    K16 Europe

    [1] "penalty= 0.001"
    [1] "Ncycles= 1000"
    [1] "distance%=0.9616"

    PV_scaled

    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,35.4
    Norwegian_Swedish,23.2
    German_Czech_Austrian,21.4
    French_Belgian,7.8
    Finnish,3.6
    Portuguese_Spanish,2.6
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,1.8
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,1.6
    Basque,1.2
    Saami,0.8
    Bosnian_Montenegrin_Serbian_Romanian_Bulgarian,0.4
    Italian_North_Central,0.2
    Ancestry paper trail tally: 21.1% Colonial American (British Isles, German, Dutch, Swiss, French), 14.1% not traced past 19th Century United States (MD, NJ, NY, PA, VA), 7.8% Canadian (Ontario & Quebec), 40.6% German, 15.6% Czech, 0.8% British & Irish

    Hidden Content * Hidden Content

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  11. #276
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    England Ireland Wales European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    The 'Celtic' component is factor 3* in the A-S vs. Nordic. And by the way note that among both German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South is pretty low, how come it was their heartland!!
    All of your posts revolve around your preconceptions based on the same coloured charts of the Netherlands. You never change your views no matter what the results of the samples are. I honestly find your posts that reply to any of my research to be confusing and worry that you will confuse any readers of my posts. This is very frustrating for me.

    All I can judge is that people here always "like" your posts, so I think this is the wrong forum for me because I put so much time into these posts with actual G25/nMonte3 results that I try to match with archaeology/history when possible and then they are always questioned by you.

    I base my posts on the results of G25/nMonte3 and PCA plots. You ask why the Anglo-Saxon samples score so much Nordic and low NW Germanic, only because they don't match your preconceptions - this is not my problem, this is the results of the calculator, which is determined by the ancestry of the actual sample. The calculators I make are good - David and Ger have done a marvellous job with G25/nMonte3; the calculators don't produce nonsensical results.

    In case you think my calculators are wrong, please look at David's PCA plot below and remember that the Anglo-Saxon samples are Nordic - they plot by modern Norwegians, not by modern NW Germans! Have you read (and absorbed) any of my posts? You might say yes but I say no.

    I don't like coming to Anthrogenica to argue why my research doesn't match your preconceptions, so it would be best not to ask me these questions in all honesty. But it would be better for me to leave because I've made the calculators I wanted and if people would run 10,000 cycles in R for themselves the results would be much better (more accurate, more informative) than the 200 cycles of the web runner.

    My life doesn't exist to argue; it is for research and interpreting results. This forum is sometimes more for supporting preconceptions - I've done that to but I try to admit my faults.

    Maybe my research has no value anyway but I'll leave it to others now.

    Very sorry.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Capitalis; 12-05-2018 at 07:04 AM.
    My ancestry: 53% S Eng, 2% N Eng, 39% Ire, 6% S Wal
    LivingDNA: 53% S Eng, 7% E Anglia, 15% SW Scot, 9% S Wal, 8% Brit Isles, 4.5% Basque/Sardinian/Tuscan, 3.4% Chechen/Indian/Kurdish

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  13. #277
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    Groningen
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    Friso-Saxon (Ingwine)
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    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalis View Post
    I found a problem when making calculators - the references you choose "squeeze" the results. In Modern Europe K16, my father scores 5% total of "Eastern European". But in Modern NW Europe K8, there are no Eastern European references, so his Austrian/Czech scores inflate. This happens with all calculators, as you have to leave some references out to make a clean calculator but for some people the results are affected slightly.

    But... the differences do exist and using Past3 I think I've been able to seperate the French, Nordics and Germans into clusters quite well. It was impossible to add the Dutch and English, however.

    I have a custom Modern Europe + Modern NW Europe calculator also. I ran your family with 10,000 cycles (a very extreme idea I had to improve the accuracy in my family results). It takes a long time to run, so I typed this post and waited an hour...

    I am very pleased with these results. To get the errors so low is a big achievement for me.

    PLEASE NOTE: I DO NOT TAKE REQUESTS FOR 10,000 CYCLES!

    Error = your difference from the average of your parents (not really an error).
    % = your amount above/below the average of your parents.

    Attachment 27501

    "distance%=0.8425"
    Finn_Dad
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,35.8
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,31.4
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,27.8
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,2.4
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,1.8
    Basque,0.2
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,0.2
    French_North_Central,0.2
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,0.2

    "distance%=1.2467"
    Finn
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,44.2
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,28.2
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,17.6
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,7.2
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,2
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,0.4
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,0.4

    "distance%=1.284"
    Finn_Mom
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,47.2
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,23.4
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,14
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,8.6
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,2.2
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,2
    Basque,1.4
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,1
    French_North_Central,0.2
    First of all thanks for your time and effort to do the 10.000 cycles. It's aprreciated!

    I understand and underline your thesis about the 'Celts becoming Germanic', and your attempts to analyse the NW European substructure.

    I understand that the Bell Beaker component is obviously represented by the Irish_Scottish_Welsh.

    The German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian. could reveil the influence of the Central European Bronze Age!? Anyway in the auDNA region of my mother, you can find one of the biggest EBA graves of the Northern Plain (see: https://www.hunebednieuwscafe.nl/201...n-van-drouwen/). It was a (E)BA hotspot there.

    So please don't misunderstand me. My view may be sometimes a little bit different (based on knowledge of my specific region), and may be my interpretation of your thoughts is not always exactly (100%) the way you like to see....but hey that's all in the game. But don't get me wrong (to speak for myself I'm curios, always looking for more and the pro's and contra's and the why's but unfortunately curiosity sometimes killed the cat

    So hope to see more of you here I will stay interested!
    Last edited by Finn; 12-05-2018 at 04:11 PM.

  14. #278
    Registered Users
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    2,143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalis View Post
    All of your posts revolve around your preconceptions based on the same coloured charts of the Netherlands. You never change your views no matter what the results of the samples are. I honestly find your posts that reply to any of my research to be confusing and worry that you will confuse any readers of my posts. This is very frustrating for me.

    All I can judge is that people here always "like" your posts, so I think this is the wrong forum for me because I put so much time into these posts with actual G25/nMonte3 results that I try to match with archaeology/history when possible and then they are always questioned by you.

    I base my posts on the results of G25/nMonte3 and PCA plots. You ask why the Anglo-Saxon samples score so much Nordic and low NW Germanic, only because they don't match your preconceptions - this is not my problem, this is the results of the calculator, which is determined by the ancestry of the actual sample. The calculators I make are good - David and Ger have done a marvellous job with G25/nMonte3; the calculators don't produce nonsensical results.

    In case you think my calculators are wrong, please look at David's PCA plot below and remember that the Anglo-Saxon samples are Nordic - they plot by modern Norwegians, not by modern NW Germans! Have you read (and absorbed) any of my posts? You might say yes but I say no.

    I don't like coming to Anthrogenica to argue why my research doesn't match your preconceptions, so it would be best not to ask me these questions in all honesty. But it would be better for me to leave because I've made the calculators I wanted and if people would run 10,000 cycles in R for themselves the results would be much better (more accurate, more informative) than the 200 cycles of the web runner.

    My life doesn't exist to argue; it is for research and interpreting results. This forum is sometimes more for supporting preconceptions - I've done that to but I try to admit my faults.

    Maybe my research has no value anyway but I'll leave it to others now.

    Very sorry.
    Of course the Anglo-Saxons resemble Nordics (no doubt) but also to North Dutch like me. LukaszM has Niedersachsen samples and they score also close to me.



    England_Anglo-Saxon:O2-I0773 385-570 AD
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,48.4
    Irish_&_Scottish_&_Welsh,38.2
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,9.6
    Finnish,2.6
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,1.2
    and Finn:

    "distance%=1.2467"

    Finn
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,44.2
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,28.2
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,17.6
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,7.2
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,2
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,0.4
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,0.4
    I see a resemblance....and if not what is the misconception here....
    Last edited by Finn; 12-05-2018 at 02:01 PM.

  15. #279
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    Brazilian
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    R1b
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    J1c

    Italy Germany Poland Brazil
    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalis View Post
    Post for MatAust21. Then I'll retire for my own health

    What a calc I made. Enjoy.

    "distance%=1.4646"
    Father_scaled
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,52.6
    French_North_Central,25
    Bosnian_Montenegrin_Serbian_Romanian_Bulgarian,8.6
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,2.2
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,2.2
    Portuguese_Spanish,2.2
    Albanian_Greek,2
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,1.4
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,1.4
    Sardinian,0.8
    Italian_South_&_Sicilian,0.6
    Italian_North_Central,0.4
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,0.2
    French_South,0.2
    Norwegian_&_Swedish_North_Central,0.2

    "distance%=1.2513"
    MatAust_scaled
    French_North_Central,38
    Bosnian_Montenegrin_Serbian_Romanian_Bulgarian,23
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,12.8
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,11.8
    Albanian_Greek,4
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,3.6
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,3.2
    Portuguese_Spanish,0.8
    Basque,0.6
    Italian_South_&_Sicilian,0.6
    French_South,0.4
    Italian_North_Central,0.4
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,0.2
    Finnish,0.2
    German_Northwest_&_Swedish_South,0.2
    Sardinian,0.2

    "distance%=1.0589"
    Mother_scaled
    Bosnian_Montenegrin_Serbian_Romanian_Bulgarian,34. 2
    French_North_Central,22.2
    French_East_&_German_South_&_Austrian,19
    Portuguese_Spanish,6.6
    Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian,6.4
    German_East_&_Czech_&_Austrian,5.8
    French_Northeast_&_Belgian_&_German_West,3.2
    Basque,0.8
    Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian,0.8
    Sardinian,0.4
    French_South,0.2
    Irish_Scottish_Welsh,0.2
    Italian_North_Central,0.2
    Thank you very much!

  16. #280
    Registered Users
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    2,143
    Sex
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    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Friso-Saxon (Ingwine)
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    [IMO, these Continental Celts adopted the Germanic language(s), perhaps receiving some Nordic genetic input, but overall remanining genetically distinguishable from the Nordic peoples. Once Germanised, I refer to these Continental Celts as Germanic, while referring to the direct descendants of Proto-Germanic peoples as Nordic].
    In the North Dutch area (=Groningen/Drenthe/Friesland) we are partly overlapping with the Nordic/Early Saxon people. So these 'continental Celts' in your terminology are remaining not distinguishable from Nordic people incl. the early Anglo Saxons. Although there is some kind of Celtic substrate.

    My private opinion?

    No, see the analysis of Agamemmon, based on Davidski's PCA:
    All three of you fall within the Dutch_North, Norwegian, Germany_Medieval and England_Anglo-Saxon clusters. Your father is especially close to one of the Medieval Germans.
    and

    You're clearly on the Scandinavian side of the spectrum here, though there is a noticeable pull towards the British Isles so you might well have some Celtic ancestry.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post492722


    But you see the Germans from nowadays Niedersachsen (Saxons) and Schleswig-Holstein (Angeln) had also a Bell Beaker ancestry.

    IMO we must take in account the work of Lao.

    Maju made a summary:

    I'm not any expert in Dutch history but a tentative explanation may be that, roughly, the yellow-dominated areas correspond more strongly to the areas of Low German/Frisian presence and/or some of their prehistoric precursors (often prehistoric cultures of Low Germany tended to be distinct to those further South).
    While Dutch and the related Limburgish dialect are part of the wider Low Franconian category (descending from Frankish Germanic and historically spoken around the Rhine), most of the yellow-dominated regions belong to distinct historical language areas: Frisian and Low German, which are both believed to derive (together with English) from the same ancestral Ingaevonic branch of West Germanic. This historical and prehistorical duality may well explain the modern genetic duality in its fundamentals, if not the genetic boundary in detail.
    http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot...opulation.html

    Lukasz has figured out that my genetic distance to Dutch Limburg is as for as to Northern Ireland (this is a kind of top 50) that's very on distance so no very close connection or similar development



    But the Continental Celts as Germans that were much differentiated to the Nordics is at least in the North Dutch case wrong.....And if this some kind of misconception than show were did I go wrong....

    So honest I appreciate your admixtures (they are really great) but I don't go with all of your conclusions!
    Last edited by Finn; 12-06-2018 at 08:33 PM.

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