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Thread: Late Gupta era admixture in Western India

  1. #1
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    Late Gupta era admixture in Western India

    Late Gupta era admixture of ruling clans during 4th & 5th century with the Hun & their followers influenced mtDNA of many people. This is shown in the elevated Scythian Siberian & Tibet component in many castes.

    Samudragupta, a hero of hundred battles by virtue of his military genius, statesmanship and personal prowess built up an empire which was both a source of terror and strength to the frontier Kings. The Kushana Kings referred to as Daivaputra-Shahi shanushahi of the north-west and Afghanistan sought to win the great favour of the great emperor Samudragupta giving personal attendance to his Court, entering into matrimonial alliance with his family and soliciting imperial charters confirming them in the enjoyment of their terri*tories. It is obvious that the Saka chiefs of north-west held a sort of a subordinate position to the emperor and probably sought his help for the Sassanian invasion as also to tide over economic crisis.

    Eran inscription of Samudragupta’s time contains record of Samudragupta’s power and achievements. Bhitari inscrip*tion of Skandagupta mentions his fight with the Huns and the Pushyamitras. This inscription also records the exploits of Samudragupta. His*torians have regarded Skandagupta one of the greatest if not the greatest of the great Gupta Emperors. He alone had the honour of defeating the Huns, three lakhs of whom attacked India, and saving India from the menace for almost half a century to follow.

    Other kingdoms of this era such as Kalachuri also had similar situation. According to Kalachuri inscriptions, King Karna (389-419 CE) married a Huna princess named Avalla Devi.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Late Gupta era admixture of ruling clans during 4th & 5th century with the Hun & their followers influenced mtDNA of many people. This is shown in the elevated Scythian Siberian & Tibet component in many castes.

    Samudragupta, a hero of hundred battles by virtue of his military genius, statesmanship and personal prowess built up an empire which was both a source of terror and strength to the frontier Kings. The Kushana Kings referred to as Daivaputra-Shahi shanushahi of the north-west and Afghanistan sought to win the great favour of the great emperor Samudragupta giving personal attendance to his Court, entering into matrimonial alliance with his family and soliciting imperial charters confirming them in the enjoyment of their terri*tories. It is obvious that the Saka chiefs of north-west held a sort of a subordinate position to the emperor and probably sought his help for the Sassanian invasion as also to tide over economic crisis.

    Eran inscription of Samudragupta’s time contains record of Samudragupta’s power and achievements. Bhitari inscrip*tion of Skandagupta mentions his fight with the Huns and the Pushyamitras. This inscription also records the exploits of Samudragupta. His*torians have regarded Skandagupta one of the greatest if not the greatest of the great Gupta Emperors. He alone had the honour of defeating the Huns, three lakhs of whom attacked India, and saving India from the menace for almost half a century to follow.

    Other kingdoms of this era such as Kalachuri also had similar situation. According to Kalachuri inscriptions, King Karna (389-419 CE) married a Huna princess named Avalla Devi.
    Could you also put the source/citation for this. Very interesting.

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    Using MDLP K16 admixture analysis shows the Kamma caste has high affinity to castes in Marwadi Rajasthan caste

    Sample admix oracle of Kamma caste samples

    Sample 1.
    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 85.1% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 14.9% GujaratiD (Gujarat) @ 2.38
    2 83.4% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 16.6% GujaratiC (Gujarat) @ 2.47
    3 87.5% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 12.5% Punjabi (Lahore) @ 2.54
    4 70.5% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 29.5% Scheduled_Caste (Tamil_Nadu) @ 2.57

    Sample 2.
    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 68.3% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 31.7% Naidu (Tamil_Nadu) @ 2.12
    2 61.5% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 38.5% Scheduled_Caste (Tamil_Nadu) @ 2.14
    3 73.9% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 26.1% Kurmi (Nepal) @ 2.15
    4 57.5% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 42.5% Velama (Andhra_Pradesh) @ 2.28

    Sample 3.
    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 53.6% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 46.4% Kurmi (Nepal) @ 2.7
    2 80.8% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 19.2% Brahmin (Madhya_Pradesh) @ 2.73
    3 67% Scheduled_Caste (Tamil_Nadu) + 33% Lambadi (Karnataka) @ 2.79
    4 96.9% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 3.1% Ami (Taiwan) @ 2.86

    Sample 4.
    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 77.9% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 22.1% GujaratiD (Gujarat) @ 2.03
    2 76% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 24% GujaratiC (Gujarat) @ 2.31
    3 81.8% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 18.2% Punjabi (Lahore) @ 2.45
    4 85.5% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 14.5% Sakilli (Tamil_Nadu) @ 2.88

    Sample 5.
    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 97.8% Scheduled_Caste (Tamil_Nadu) + 2.2% BedouinB (Negev) @ 2.47
    2 71.4% Scheduled_Caste (Tamil_Nadu) + 28.6% Thakur (Maharashtra) @ 2.61
    3 55.9% Naidu (Tamil_Nadu) + 44.1% Marwadi (Rajasthan) @ 2.68
    4 66.8% Scheduled_Caste (Tamil_Nadu) + 33.2% Marwadi (Rajasthan) @ 2.79


    Sample 6.
    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 71.1% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 28.9% Nihali (Madhya_Pradesh) @ 2.06
    2 67.9% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 32.1% Satnami (Uttar_Pradesh) @ 2.21
    3 76.3% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 23.7% Sahariya (Madhya_Pradesh) @ 2.27
    4 65.2% Marwadi (Rajasthan) + 34.8% Chenchu (Andhra_Pradesh) @ 2.27
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Could you also put the source/citation for this. Very interesting.
    Hun inscriptions of Eran & Gupta inscription of Bhitari.
    http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Eran_boar...on_of_Toramana
    https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/vi...of-skandagupta

    Kalachuri inscriptions
    https://archive.org/stream/in.ernet....i-Era_djvu.txt
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Gujaratis are unaffected by any expansion into the subcontinent as it is a peninsula that need not have been invaded by anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by midichlorian View Post
    Gujaratis are unaffected by any expansion into the subcontinent as it is a peninsula that need not have been invaded by anyone.
    Many castes are unaffected I agree but some castes like Rajputs mostly but some newer Bania castes have these newer outside DNA added after Gupta age. Leuva Patels have older Iron age admixture coming from Kalash like early Brahmin population like in your case.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by midichlorian View Post
    Gujaratis are unaffected by any expansion into the subcontinent as it is a peninsula that need not have been invaded by anyone.
    Your closest distance with users here

    "distance%=1.4011"

    Midi_Patel

    Suresh_T,52.3333333333333
    Bengalbrahmin,14.1666666666667
    HRP0349_Jat,10.3333333333333
    ssamlal_brother_VS,7.33333333333333
    Reza_Mother,6.83333333333333
    bmoney,3.66666666666667
    Punjabi_Ramgarhia,2.83333333333333
    Reza_Wife,1.66666666666667
    S_Grewal,0.833333333333333


    With other major groups

    "distance%=1.2549"

    Midi_Patel

    Suresh_T,27.8333333333333
    Mala,23.6666666666667
    Velamas,18.1666666666667
    AP Katri,13
    S_Grewal,9.33333333333333
    Kshatriya,8

    Interesting you are ~70% Andhra matching another 8% Kshatriya if taken from Andhra which is whooping 78% & remaining is Punjab.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 0.79 IND_Roopkund_A 51.05 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 46.64 MAR_Iberomaurusian2.04PAK_Katelai_IA0.19 TKM_Gonur2_BA 0.08

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Your closest distance with users here

    "distance%=1.4011"

    Midi_Patel

    Suresh_T,52.3333333333333
    Bengalbrahmin,14.1666666666667
    HRP0349_Jat,10.3333333333333
    ssamlal_brother_VS,7.33333333333333
    Reza_Mother,6.83333333333333
    bmoney,3.66666666666667
    Punjabi_Ramgarhia,2.83333333333333
    Reza_Wife,1.66666666666667
    S_Grewal,0.833333333333333


    With other major groups

    "distance%=1.2549"

    Midi_Patel

    Suresh_T,27.8333333333333
    Mala,23.6666666666667
    Velamas,18.1666666666667
    AP Katri,13
    S_Grewal,9.33333333333333
    Kshatriya,8

    Interesting you are ~70% Andhra matching another 8% Kshatriya if taken from Andhra which is whooping 78% & remaining is Punjab.
    Tipirneni bro - what are your scaled coordinates if you don't mind sharing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Your closest distance with users here

    "distance%=1.4011"

    Midi_Patel

    Suresh_T,52.3333333333333
    Bengalbrahmin,14.1666666666667
    HRP0349_Jat,10.3333333333333
    ssamlal_brother_VS,7.33333333333333
    Reza_Mother,6.83333333333333
    bmoney,3.66666666666667
    Punjabi_Ramgarhia,2.83333333333333
    Reza_Wife,1.66666666666667
    S_Grewal,0.833333333333333


    With other major groups

    "distance%=1.2549"

    Midi_Patel

    Suresh_T,27.8333333333333
    Mala,23.6666666666667
    Velamas,18.1666666666667
    AP Katri,13
    S_Grewal,9.33333333333333
    Kshatriya,8

    Interesting you are ~70% Andhra matching another 8% Kshatriya if taken from Andhra which is whooping 78% & remaining is Punjab.
    Interesting.... So are Gujjus just a mixture of Andhra Pradeshis and Punjabis?

  14. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by midichlorian View Post
    Interesting.... So are Gujjus just a mixture of Andhra Pradeshis and Punjabis?
    Not exactly like that. In Gujaratis like you, there is significant IVCp Bronze Age ancestry, including extra AASI and extra Steppe like signal. These "extra AASI" could be due to multiple South Asian HG populations and Steppe-like were likely archaic before Pontic Steppe rolled in. Modern combination of "Andhra Pradeshi + Punjabi" just does not cut it.

    The ancestral components for all South Asians are the same... just different proportions. Only some peripheral South Asian groups have extra components. All the nuances are automatically thrown out when you model based on modern groups.

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