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Thread: South Asian HarappaWorld results

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamilgangster View Post
    All these samples consistently have foreign mixture, and not the components youd expect. Especially for having high 50s. COmpared to middle caste tamil groups with similar SI, theres is consistently higher NE asian, along with SW asian and Caucasian, in some. But There is consitantly higher portions of extraneous components at visible levels in ratio to SI. The veddoid type in SL could be genetically different from the veddoid in South india, causing to harappa dna results to have strange results. FOrein mixture is also a possibility for SE asian, SW asian and Caucasian
    Sinhalese could have indo Aryan mix if that is what you are suggesting. The higher SE Asian and Papuan might be due to the difference in srilankan and south indian hunter gatherers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamilgangster View Post
    All these samples consistently have foreign mixture, and not the components youd expect. Especially for having high 50s. COmpared to middle caste tamil groups with similar SI, theres is consistently higher NE asian, along with SW asian and Caucasian, in some. But There is consitantly higher portions of extraneous components at visible levels in ratio to SI. The veddoid type in SL could be genetically different from the veddoid in South india, causing to harappa dna results to have strange results. FOrein mixture is also a possibility for SE asian, SW asian and Caucasian
    yes...SE asian and SW asian are seen in similar proportions to other non brahmin populations like the ezhavas of kerala, caucasian is on par with other tamil communties i suppose.
    the very very minute NE europe suggests a negligible steppe influence, I suppose the king Vijaya's journey to Lanka and the establisment of the Sinhala culture there was carried by a rather small population from the indian subcontinent( tradition points to Bengal and Orissa as the original land from where Vijaya went to Lanka).....also sinhalese scriptures talk about other peoples like yaksha,nagas...who i guess were the aborigines of Sri Lanka, alng with the Veddas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ammi View Post
    @Tamilgangster
    The Tamil Samples which I have seen so far, have similar components to above Sinhalese Samples, They all have Caucasian and even SW asian(May be Iran_N leaking into SW asian or may be Ancient mesopotamia trade)
    For Example see the below Tamil sample(scores 1.92% SW asian)
    # Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 56.12
    2 Baloch 31.97
    3 NE-Asian 2.46
    4 Siberian 2.27
    5 SW-Asian 1.92
    6 NE-Euro 1.64
    7 Papuan 1.59
    8 Caucasian 1.1
    9 SE-Asian 0.55
    10 Beringian 0.18
    11 Pygmy 0.17
    12 American 0.03

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 sinhalese (harappa) 3.05
    2 andhra-pradesh (harappa) 3.99
    3 tamil-nadar (harappa) 4
    4 tamil-vellalar (harappa) 4.23
    5 up-scheduled-caste (metspalu) 4.35
    6 karnataka (harappa) 4.48
    7 tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) 4.52
    8 dusadh (metspalu) 4.61
    9 lodi (reich) 4.7
    10 tamil (harappa) 5.01
    11 tharu (metspalu) 5.03
    12 kerala-muslim (harappa) 5.29
    13 kurumba (metspalu) 5.33
    14 kanjar (metspalu) 5.38
    15 naidu (reich) 5.41
    16 ap-reddy (harappa) 5.43
    17 up-muslim (metspalu) 5.53
    18 velama (reich) 5.64
    19 velama (metspalu) 5.67
    20 dharkar (metspalu) 5.91
    Here is the another Tamil Sample(scores 2.9% SW Asian)
    # Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 56.84
    2 Baloch 31.57
    3 SW-Asian 2.93
    4 SE-Asian 2.72
    5 Caucasian 1.89
    6 NE-Euro 1.39
    7 Siberian 0.95
    8 American 0.9
    9 Papuan 0.65
    10 NE-Asian 0.14

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 sinhalese (harappa) 2.46
    2 tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) 3.06
    3 tamil-nadar (harappa) 3.39
    4 andhra-pradesh (harappa) 3.75
    5 lodi (reich) 4.29
    6 dusadh (metspalu) 4.34
    7 karnataka (harappa) 4.36
    8 tamil-vellalar (harappa) 4.43
    9 up-scheduled-caste (metspalu) 4.6
    10 naidu (reich) 4.71
    11 kurumba (metspalu) 4.78
    12 tamil (harappa) 4.96
    13 tharu (metspalu) 5.41
    14 kerala-muslim (harappa) 5.49
    15 velama (metspalu) 5.52
    16 singapore-indian-a (sgvp) 5.61
    17 velama (reich) 5.65
    18 kol (metspalu) 5.73
    19 piramalai-kallar (metspalu) 6.16
    20 kanjar (metspalu) 6.16
    Scoring Caucasian and SW Asian is norm for non tribal South indians, It is not recent foreign admixture either, The Sinhalese samples which i have seen so far are overwhelmingly closer to Tamils and other South Indians.
    Yes south indians score sw asian and caucasian, but I see them more constantly among SL samples, especially in relation to SI score. Also NE asian and SIberian i see consistently higher, in ratio to South indians with similar score. eg nadar. Even nairs have lower caucasian than some of the samples even though lower si. With SE asian, SW asian and Caucasian its hard to tell foreign mixture. Mediterranean is a definate indicator of forein ancestry. SIberian and NE asian seem to be correlate also. Though the noise seems to be ALOT in sl samples speculating the indegenous veddoid type is different?

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  7. #4224
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    Punjabi Khatri (Bedi):

    Population Percent
    1 Baloch 38.57
    2 S-Indian 29.37
    3 Caucasian 15.07
    4 NE-Euro 11.61
    5 Siberian 2.12
    6 SW-Asian 1.63
    7 American 1.09
    8 Beringian 0.4
    9 SE-Asian 0.14

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 2.42
    2 kashmiri (harappa) 4.39
    3 sindhi (harappa) 4.66
    4 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 4.85
    5 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 5.43
    6 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 5.47
    7 punjabi (harappa) 6.17
    8 pathan (hgdp) 6.42
    9 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.44
    10 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.37
    11 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 8.18
    12 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 8.33
    13 bhatia (harappa) 8.38
    14 punjabi-arain (xing) 8.45
    15 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.68
    16 up-muslim (harappa) 8.84
    17 haryana-jatt (harappa) 8.87
    18 kalash (hgdp) 9.11
    19 burusho (hgdp) 10
    20 sindhi (hgdp) 10.21

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 90.8% pathan (hgdp) + 9.2% irula (xing) @ 1.97
    2 91% pathan (hgdp) + 9% pulliyar (metspalu) @ 2.08
    3 98.8% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 1.2% nganassan (rasmussen) @ 2.14
    4 98.6% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 1.4% dolgan (rasmussen) @ 2.16
    5 98.8% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 1.2% evenki (rasmussen) @ 2.17
    6 98.7% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 1.3% yakut (hgdp) @ 2.18
    7 87% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 13% lezgin (behar) @ 2.18
    8 87.8% pathan (hgdp) + 12.2% chenchu (reich) @ 2.2
    9 90.1% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 9.9% urkarah (xing) @ 2.21
    10 88.1% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 11.9% chechen (yunusbayev) @ 2.22
    11 98.6% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 1.4% ket (rasmussen) @ 2.23
    12 87.5% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 12.5% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.23
    13 98.6% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 1.4% selkup (rasmussen) @ 2.24
    14 91.3% pathan (hgdp) + 8.7% paniya (chaubey) @ 2.26
    15 86.7% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 13.3% urkarah (xing) @ 2.27
    16 98.9% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 1.1% yukaghir (rasmussen) @ 2.29
    17 98.9% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 1.1% tuvinian (rasmussen) @ 2.31
    18 99% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 1% buryat (rasmussen) @ 2.31
    19 87.8% pathan (hgdp) + 12.2% north-kannadi (chaubey) @ 2.31
    20 98.9% punjabi-khatri (harappa) + 1.1% altaian (rasmussen) @ 2.33

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    Marathi Pushtikar Brahmin (Kelkar):

    Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 46.61
    2 Baloch 35.15
    3 Caucasian 8.15
    4 NE-Euro 4.96
    5 SE-Asian 1.26
    6 Mediterranean 1.14
    7 Siberian 1.07
    8 Papuan 1.02
    9 American 0.48
    10 SW-Asian 0.16

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 maharashtrian (harappa) 3.16
    2 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 3.58
    3 tn-brahmin (xing) 3.59
    4 rajasthani (harappa) 3.63
    5 brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 3.76
    6 meghawal (reich) 4.05
    7 iyer-brahmin (harappa) 4.16
    8 kerala-christian (harappa) 4.49
    9 iyengar-brahmin (harappa) 4.6
    10 ap-brahmin (xing) 4.9
    11 bihari-muslim (harappa) 4.98
    12 gujarati (harappa) 5.07
    13 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 5.29
    14 singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 5.39
    15 up (harappa) 5.47
    16 kerala-nair (harappa) 5.81
    17 gujarati-b (hapmap) 5.93
    18 bihari (harappa) 6.42
    19 vaish (reich) 6.44
    20 ap-hyderabad (harappa) 6.59

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 92.4% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 7.6% adygei (hgdp) @ 1.52
    2 92% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 8% chechen (yunusbayev) @ 1.56
    3 92.4% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 7.6% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 1.61
    4 92.4% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 7.6% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 1.61
    5 91.7% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 8.3% lezgin (behar) @ 1.67
    6 61.7% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) + 38.3% kalash (hgdp) @ 1.69
    7 50.4% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 49.6% kurumba (metspalu) @ 1.71
    8 52.9% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 47.1% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) @ 1.71
    9 91.8% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 8.2% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 1.72
    10 61.8% kurumba (metspalu) + 38.2% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.74
    11 53.5% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 46.5% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) @ 1.75
    12 93.2% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 6.8% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 1.77
    13 66.3% lodi (reich) + 33.7% kalash (hgdp) @ 1.78
    14 91.6% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 8.4% urkarah (xing) @ 1.81
    15 91.4% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 8.6% stalskoe (xing) @ 1.81
    16 59.5% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) + 40.5% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.82
    17 93.5% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 6.5% georgian (behar) @ 1.84
    18 57.1% vysya (reich) + 42.9% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.84
    19 55.3% kashmiri-pandit (reich) + 44.7% vysya (reich) @ 1.86
    20 58.9% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) + 41.1% pathan (hgdp) @

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    Quote Originally Posted by vishankar View Post
    yes...SE asian and SW asian are seen in similar proportions to other non brahmin populations like the ezhavas of kerala, caucasian is on par with other tamil communties i suppose.
    the very very minute NE europe suggests a negligible steppe influence, I suppose the king Vijaya's journey to Lanka and the establisment of the Sinhala culture there was carried by a rather small population from the indian subcontinent( tradition points to Bengal and Orissa as the original land from where Vijaya went to Lanka).....also sinhalese scriptures talk about other peoples like yaksha,nagas...who i guess were the aborigines of Sri Lanka, alng with the Veddas.
    could be...

    When Prince Vijaya landed on Tambapanni (5th century BC)[2] with his seven hundred followers
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuveni

  12. #4227
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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Isn’t it basically accepted that the RigVedic Battle of the Ten Kings” was referring to the war story which was elaborated into an epic in Mahabharat much later. The linguistic features of orally transmitted RogVeda has BronzeAge features but Mahabharat does not. RigaVeda being a canonical scripture had much better chance of being preserved intact that epics that were being constantly adjusted to the changing times.
    The Rg is immensely better preseved, no doubt

    On the battle my thinking is that the epic Bharat had the original battle and that this has some parallels in the Rg Vedic book seven.
    But Mahabharat is a graft of the Maurya-empire period onto that older battle. This rendition was likely done by the Vasisth family.
    There was likely another update by the Bhrgus in the Gupta period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamilgangster View Post
    Yes south indians score sw asian and caucasian, but I see them more constantly among SL samples, especially in relation to SI score. Also NE asian and SIberian i see consistently higher, in ratio to South indians with similar score. eg nadar. Even nairs have lower caucasian than some of the samples even though lower si. With SE asian, SW asian and Caucasian its hard to tell foreign mixture. Mediterranean is a definate indicator of forein ancestry. SIberian and NE asian seem to be correlate also. Though the noise seems to be ALOT in sl samples speculating the indegenous veddoid type is different?
    the mediterranean + NE europe would be a more robust indicator of foreign ancestry, !..this combination of a little caucasian + sw asian + mediterranean, is most likely to be from the ancient neolithic farmers of the crescent, mediterranean component could be shared with ancient bronze age non steppe populations.
    i am not sure about siberian and NE asian, NE asian could be from the buddhist traditions, siberian again has prehistoric origins....
    why dont u try running these samples on non harappa calculators- gedrosia and dodecad?.....sometimes when we run all the calculators, we may have a clearer idea of the components?
    Also, you could get the PCA coordinates from david weslowski, and then on nmonte we will get a clearer idea!
    i feel we may be looking at an ibero maurasian component among tamils too!...but G25 coordinates will provide a clearer picture!

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  16. #4229
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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Isn’t it basically accepted that the RigVedic Battle of the Ten Kings” was referring to the war story which was elaborated into an epic in Mahabharat much later. The linguistic features of orally transmitted RogVeda has BronzeAge features but Mahabharat does not. RigaVeda being a canonical scripture had much better chance of being preserved intact that epics that were being constantly adjusted to the changing times.
    The only similarity between that battle of ten kings in Rig Ved and Mahabharat is in the form of some of the names of the Kings and their tribes. Mahabharat emerged much later. It sounds like a work produced in the middle of the first Millennium, in the Gupta period, towards the decline of Buddhism, and it kept getting updated over the course of several next centuries.

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    Paliwal - Garhwali Brahmin or mixed Rajasthani Brahmin?

    Google searches shows up the surname as mostly Rajasthani Brahmin but the result looks like low NE-Euro Nepali Brahmin. To my knowledge, Nepali Brahmins do not have this surname at all and the http://www.paliwalbrahmins.com/ says it can be found in Uttarakhand. Some matrimony sites also show "Paliwal Garhwali Brahmin".

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 33.45
    2 Baloch 32.52
    3 Caucasian 9.94
    4 NE-Euro 9.13
    5 NE-Asian 5.32
    6 Mediterranean 2.01
    7 SE-Asian 1.75
    8 Beringian 1.72
    9 American 1.41
    10 Siberian 1.22
    11 Papuan 0.71
    12 W-African 0.61
    13 Pygmy 0.19

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 up-muslim (harappa) 4.78
    2 kashmiri (harappa) 7.39
    3 nepalese-a (xing) 7.48
    4 punjabi (harappa) 7.67
    5 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 8
    6 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 8.17
    7 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 8.34
    8 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 8.72
    9 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 8.74
    10 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 9.17
    11 up-brahmin (harappa) 9.64
    12 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 9.68
    13 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 9.73
    14 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 10.05
    15 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 10.44
    16 bihari-muslim (harappa) 10.47
    17 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 11.19
    18 sindhi (harappa) 11.93
    19 haryana-jatt (harappa) 12.06
    20 punjabi-arain (xing) 12.23

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 96.2% up-muslim (harappa) + 3.8% japanese (1000genomes) @ 2.72
    2 95.4% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.6% han-nchina (hgdp) @ 2.74
    3 83.3% up-muslim (harappa) + 16.7% nepalese-c (xing) @ 2.75
    4 95.4% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.6% chinese-beijing (hapmap) @ 2.76
    5 95.5% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.5% naga (metspalu) @ 2.76
    6 95.6% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.4% aonaga (reich) @ 2.76
    7 95.1% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.9% tu (hgdp) @ 2.76
    8 95.4% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.6% chinese-beijing (1000genomes) @ 2.76
    9 58.3% up-muslim (metspalu) + 41.7% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 2.77
    10 95.2% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.8% yi (hgdp) @ 2.77
    11 95.2% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.8% naxi (hgdp) @ 2.78
    12 95.5% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.5% nysha (reich) @ 2.78
    13 92.7% up-muslim (harappa) + 7.3% nepalese-b (xing) @ 2.8
    14 95.4% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.6% tibet (simonson) @ 2.82
    15 57.4% tharu (metspalu) + 42.6% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 2.91
    16 95.4% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.6% chinese-american (hapmap) @ 2.91
    17 95.4% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.6% tujia (hgdp) @ 2.91
    18 95.4% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.6% han (hgdp) @ 2.98
    19 95.4% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.6% han-chinese-south (1000genomes) @ 2.99
    20 95.2% up-muslim (harappa) + 4.8% xibo (hgdp) @ 3
    Last edited by kaazi; 09-19-2020 at 07:03 AM.

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