South Asian HarappaWorld results

[tipirneni]

a GEDMATCH match for one of my payyanur poduval kits....a nair..high caucasian..
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 43.35
2 Baloch 37.18
3 Caucasian 11.23
4 NE-Euro 2.59
5 Siberian 2.57
6 Papuan 1.48


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu @ 7.300745
2 tn-brahmin_xing @ 7.452653
3 maharashtrian_harappa @ 7.664296
4 meghawal_reich @ 7.836708
5 goan_harappa @ 7.916107
6 kerala-christian_harappa @ 8.071751
7 kerala_harappa @ 8.226295
8 rajasthani_harappa @ 8.235703
9 karnataka-brahmin_harappa @ 8.622302
10 bihari-muslim_harappa @ 8.650746
11 iyer-brahmin_harappa @ 8.756815
12 gujarati-b_hapmap @ 8.835279
13 gujarati_harappa @ 8.940761
14 cochin-jew_behar @ 9.193355
15 meena_metspalu @ 9.362710
16 kerala-nair_harappa @ 9.411700
17 iyengar-brahmin_harappa @ 9.416393
18 up-kshatriya_metspalu @ 9.737894
19 kerala-brahmin_harappa @ 9.918848
20 ap-brahmin_xing @ 10.376394

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% kalash_hgdp +50% vysya_reich @ 3.661851


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% kalash_hgdp +25% tn-dalit_xing +25% velama_reich @ 3.550311


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + kurumba_metspalu + velama_reich @ 3.234831
2 kalash_hgdp + kerala-christian_harappa + kerala-christian_harappa + velama_reich @ 3.354149
3 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + piramalai-kallar_metspalu + velama_reich @ 3.399305
4 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + velama_reich + vysya_reich @ 3.400600
5 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + tamil-vellalar_harappa + velama_reich @ 3.417003
6 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + kurumba_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 3.424129
7 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + singapore-indian-a_sgvp + velama_reich @ 3.436072
8 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + velama_reich + velama_reich @ 3.437481
9 kalash_hgdp + kerala_harappa + kerala-christian_harappa + velama_reich @ 3.476478
10 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste_metspalu + velama_reich @ 3.514494
11 ap-hyderabad_harappa + kalash_hgdp + kerala-christian_harappa + kerala-christian_harappa @ 3.518448
12 cochin-jew_behar + kalash_hgdp + kerala-christian_harappa + velama_reich @ 3.525073
13 kalash_hgdp + kalash_hgdp + tn-dalit_xing + velama_reich @ 3.550311
14 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + piramalai-kallar_metspalu + velama_metspalu @ 3.559026
15 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + tamil-nadar_harappa + velama_reich @ 3.562661
16 cochin-jew_behar + goan_harappa + kalash_hgdp + velama_reich @ 3.571094
17 kalash_hgdp + kerala-christian_harappa + kerala-christian_harappa + velama_metspalu @ 3.576640
18 kalash_hgdp + kalash_hgdp + mala_reich + velama_reich @ 3.584384
19 gujarati-muslim_harappa + kalash_hgdp + sinhalese_harappa + velama_reich @ 3.586869
20 kalash_hgdp + kalash_hgdp + tamil-vishwakarma_harappa + velama_reich @ 3.587291

what do you get on dnastudio harappa extended for mixed match and 3 way 4 way?

[vishankar]

what do you get on dnastudio harappa extended for mixed match and 3 way 4 way?

not tried that out....this was on GEDMATCH

[VoodooKing]

Also, what really perplexes me are the following matches of this person:

Gajjar (Gujarati Suthar, i.e. potters). Scores like a Punjabi/lower-SI Gujarati Brahmin:





Gandhi - Gujarati Vaniya, but looks very atypical.



All in all these kits look all over the place. I am not sure what to make of it. If they are really mixed with Brahmins/Lohanas/Sindhis, then I wonder why these are not popping up in their matches.

Identification based on surname becomes a bit complex, there could be others using " Gajjar" as well but I won't be surprised if this comes out a genuine Gujarati Suthar sample from Gujarat. I do expect Suthars of Gujarat, Khati/Jangid of Rajasthan and West MP to score different. I think with "occupational castes" it becomes who took that occupation. A lot of these could be related to ancient groups (who rose in between 200 BC to 500 AD) taking different occupations subsequently.

[VoodooKing]

Thanks for the kit, looks definitely like a mixed bunch, most probably with Brahmins. Here are some unusual matches of this person:


Patel


Patel:


Also, one of their matches has the surname "Kalyan". Is it a Jat clan? They score more like an SI-shifted Sindhi/Lohana.

Kalyan


Kalyan (above's top match)

Any Gujarati Mistri sample ? Gujarati Kutchi Mistri is another group, I do expect them to score different.

[Kirtan24]

37-38 is the average right? I have seen that quite a few of the GBR samples from Damgaard are less that 37%, not by much though.

Yeah it could be that 37-38 is the average (at least for the samples that we have from formal studies). But many Brahmin castes like Audichyas and Aboti regularly score 38+ Baloch.

[VoodooKing]

Jammu Dogra (Rajput?) probably the lowest SI Hindu Rajput
https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/com...long_with_the/

Attachment 50214

Gujarat Rajput (Chavda)52623 SNPs used in this evaluation
S-Indian 40.76 Pct
Baloch 36.15 Pct
Caucasian 7.50 Pct
NE-Euro 7.27 Pct
SE-Asian 0.88 Pct
Siberian 0.51 Pct
NE-Asian 2.44 Pct
Papuan 0.06 Pct
American 0.50 Pct
Beringian 0.64 Pct
Mediterranean -
SW-Asian 2.83 Pct
San -
E-African 0.44 Pct
Pygmy -
W-African -


Gujarat Rajput52887 SNPs used in this evaluation
S-Indian 41.46 Pct
Baloch 37.11 Pct
Caucasian 6.80 Pct
NE-Euro 8.92 Pct
SE-Asian -
Siberian 1.08 Pct
NE-Asian 1.58 Pct
Papuan 0.78 Pct
American 1.78 Pct
Beringian -
Mediterranean 0.29 Pct
SW-Asian -
San 0.19 Pct
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

Chavda is also used by Gujarati Mistris as last name. I hope samples are not being identified just on the basis of last names, It can surely result into potential errors. Let us remember a lot of people who had their tests might be NRI (Living outside of Ind) types. Of course those living in Ind would be having it, but would be less in numbers.

[dante911]

Thanks for the kit, looks definitely like a mixed bunch, most probably with Brahmins. Here are some unusual matches of this person:


Patel


Patel:


Also, one of their matches has the surname "Kalyan". Is it a Jat clan? They score more like an SI-shifted Sindhi/Lohana.

Kalyan


Kalyan (above's top match)

Can these patel samples belong to Anjana ?

[Kirtan24]

Surprising results. I would say there is some title adoption/ admixing going on. But the facts that no matches show up as you said & uniform results of all these samples make the situation unclear. Anyways they are definitely outliers when compared to the main Patel/ Vaishya cluster. But they may represent an actual minority within.

Artisan castes can be confusing tbh. Tarkhans are practically the same as Brahmins of Punjab. But coming to Gujarat, the Gujarati Kumhar & Panchal ( can you confirm whether this surname is used by artisans?) are 45-48 SI iirc. Otoh this sample is straight up Brahmin like. Is gajjar exclusive to Suthars?

Kalyan is used by Rors & Tarkhans. Though these samples pass better among the Mers you posted. What do you think?

Looks like there is some diversity among different artisanal castes of Gujarat. Panchal (blacksmiths/ironsmiths) and Prajapati samples posted here were around 44-45 SI I think. Looking at the 3rd Gajjar sample posted by you it looks like they stand out. As far as I know Gajjar is exclusive to Suthars.
It would be great to see further results of other artisanal castes (like Soni, Kansara, etc.) of Gujarat. I believe they are quite diverse. Even Prajapati/Kumhar themselves are divided into several subcastes, some of which didn't itnermarry. Some examples are Khambhati, Sorathiya, Gurjar, Ojha(!), etc. Btw, Prajapatis claim Brahmin descent.

I don't think Mers use the Kalyan surname. One of my Lohana friends told me that some Lohanas of Halar (Kathiawad) use it as a title. So this sample could belong to a (probably mixed) Lohana individual.

[Kirtan24]

Identification based on surname becomes a bit complex, there could be others using " Gajjar" as well but I won't be surprised if this comes out a genuine Gujarati Suthar sample from Gujarat. I do expect Suthars of Gujarat, Khati/Jangid of Rajasthan and West MP to score different. I think with "occupational castes" it becomes who took that occupation. A lot of these could be related to ancient groups (who rose in between 200 BC to 500 AD) taking different occupations subsequently.

Gajjar is exclusive to Suthar as far as I know, at least in Gujarat. Other members could chip in if it is used by other communities in their respective states.

[Kirtan24]

Can these patel samples belong to Anjana ?

Not entirely impossible, but I doubt it. According to most opinions Anjana Chaudhary/Jats are related to Jats of Marwar. It makes sense as they are mostly concentrated around the border areas of Gujarat and Rajasthan. Their Kuldevi is also in Rajasthan (Mt. Abu). So I would expect them to score similar to the Jats of Southern Rajasthan, which is not the case for these samples I posted.