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Thread: South Asian HarappaWorld results

  1. #6621
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    Rimal (Nepali Brahmin) 164358 SNPs used in this evaluation

    Y haplo: J2a1b, mt: M34b. "Baloch" is towards the high end (93-94% South Asian) showing a MENA like pull.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Baloch 35.86
    2 S-Indian 34.48
    3 NE-Euro 12.13
    4 Caucasian 8.75
    5 NE-Asian 4.37
    6 Mediterranean 1.78
    7 Beringian 1.13
    8 American 0.81
    9 Papuan 0.6
    10 SW-Asian 0.07
    11 Siberian 0.01

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 nepalese-a (xing) 4.28
    2 up-muslim (harappa) 5.89
    3 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 5.92
    4 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 5.93
    5 punjabi (harappa) 6.38
    6 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 6.7
    7 up-brahmin (harappa) 6.76
    8 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 6.9
    9 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 7.12
    10 kashmiri (harappa) 7.72
    11 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 7.95
    12 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 8.46
    13 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 8.76
    14 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 9.02
    15 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 9.08
    16 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 9.29
    17 haryana-jatt (harappa) 9.9
    18 bihari-muslim (harappa) 10.36
    19 punjabi-arain (xing) 10.4
    20 vaish (reich) 10.86

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 86.1% nepalese-a (xing) + 13.9% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 2.95
    2 59.4% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) + 40.6% burusho (hgdp) @ 3.12
    3 63.3% nepalese-a (xing) + 36.7% up-muslim (harappa) @ 3.16
    4 96% nepalese-a (xing) + 4% georgian (behar) @ 3.23
    5 71.6% nepalese-a (xing) + 28.4% kashmiri (harappa) @ 3.26
    6 95.9% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.1% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 3.28
    7 77.8% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) + 22.2% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.28
    8 95.9% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.1% druze (hgdp) @ 3.28
    9 81.6% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 18.4% nepalese-c (xing) @ 3.29
    10 92% nepalese-a (xing) + 8% romanian-b (behar) @ 3.3
    11 95.5% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.5% armenian (behar) @ 3.32
    12 76.5% nepalese-a (xing) + 23.5% gujarati-muslim (harappa) @ 3.35
    13 91.4% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 8.6% nepalese-b (xing) @ 3.38
    14 58.8% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 41.2% burusho (hgdp) @ 3.4
    15 95.8% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.2% cypriot (behar) @ 3.4
    16 95.6% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.4% azerbaijan-jew (behar) @ 3.4
    17 95.7% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.3% lebanese-druze (haber) @ 3.42
    18 95.7% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.3% georgia-jew (behar) @ 3.43
    19 73.5% vaish (reich) + 26.5% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.43
    20 95.6% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.4% assyrian (harappa) @ 3.45

    4way
     

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Baloch 35.86
    2 S-Indian 34.48
    3 NE-Euro 12.13
    4 Caucasian 8.75
    5 NE-Asian 4.37
    6 Mediterranean 1.78
    7 Beringian 1.13


    Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
    16 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 4.646071
    2 nepalese-a_xing @ 4.648140
    3 nepali_harappa @ 5.004779
    4 up-muslim_harappa @ 6.376215
    5 punjabi-brahmin_harappa @ 6.430314
    6 singapore-indian-c_sgvp @ 6.470740
    7 punjabi_harappa @ 6.943057
    8 bihari-brahmin_harappa @ 7.129457
    9 kashmiri-pandit_reich @ 7.329624
    10 up-brahmin_harappa @ 7.380675
    11 kashmiri-pahari_harappa @ 7.569615
    12 punjabi-ramgarhia_harappa @ 7.753216
    13 pushtikar-brahmin_harappa @ 8.074994
    14 kashmiri_harappa @ 8.527271
    15 punjabi-jatt-muslim_harappa @ 8.612558
    16 punjabi-jatt-sikh_harappa @ 9.236465
    17 brahmin-uttar-pradesh_metspalu @ 9.627878
    18 bengali-brahmin_harappa @ 9.917782
    19 punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 9.968518
    20 gujarati-muslim_harappa @ 10.187366

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% nepali_harappa +50% rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 3.289383


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% bengali-brahmin_harappa +25% burusho_hgdp +25% rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.724313


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 burusho_hgdp + caribbean-indian_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 1.976295
    2 burusho_hgdp + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + sri-lankan_harappa @ 2.125607
    3 bihari_harappa + burusho_hgdp + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.287257
    4 burusho_hgdp + haryana-jatt_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + up-muslim_metspalu @ 2.355307
    5 burusho_hgdp + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + up-muslim_metspalu @ 2.400367
    6 burusho_hgdp + caribbean-indian_harappa + haryana-jatt_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.407654
    7 burusho_hgdp + haryana-jatt_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + up-scheduled-caste_metspalu @ 2.467263
    8 burusho_hgdp + chenchu_metspalu + haryana-jatt_harappa + haryana-jatt_harappa @ 2.473235
    9 bihari-muslim_harappa + nepali_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.485379
    10 burusho_hgdp + nepali_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + srivastava_reich @ 2.492087
    11 burusho_hgdp + haryana-jatt_harappa + nepali_harappa + up-muslim_metspalu @ 2.506692
    12 bengali-brahmin_harappa + kashmiri_harappa + nepalese-a_xing + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.522723
    13 burusho_hgdp + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + srivastava_reich @ 2.525197
    14 bihari-brahmin_harappa + nepali_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.525375
    15 bengali_harappa + burusho_hgdp + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.557987
    16 burusho_hgdp + caribbean-indian_harappa + nepali_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.563149
    17 bihari_harappa + burusho_hgdp + nepali_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.584119
    18 bengali-brahmin_harappa + nepali_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.594304
    19 burusho_hgdp + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa + up_harappa @ 2.599478
    20 bihari-brahmin_harappa + nepali_harappa + nepali_harappa + rajasthani-brahmin_harappa @ 2.609239
    Last edited by Kaazi; 07-29-2021 at 05:23 PM.

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  3. #6622
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    Gautam (Nepali Brahmin) Y haplo: R1a-Y7, mt haplo: N1a1b. What's this mt haplo??
    182312 SNPs used in this evaluation

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 S-Indian 34.9
    2 Baloch 34.35
    3 NE-Euro 13.2
    4 Caucasian 8.95
    5 NE-Asian 2.96
    6 Siberian 2.19
    7 Beringian 1.12
    8 American 0.83
    9 Papuan 0.79
    10 Mediterranean 0.29
    11 SE-Asian 0.29
    12 San 0.12

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 nepalese-a (xing) 4.6
    2 up-muslim (harappa) 5.98
    3 up-brahmin (harappa) 6.59
    4 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 6.81
    5 punjabi (harappa) 7.13
    6 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 7.21
    7 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 7.27
    8 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 8.24
    9 kashmiri (harappa) 8.36
    10 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 8.44
    11 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 8.49
    12 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 8.51
    13 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 8.57
    14 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 8.99
    15 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 9.41
    16 haryana-jatt (harappa) 9.88
    17 bihari-muslim (harappa) 9.94
    18 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 10.09
    19 vaish (reich) 10.73
    20 sindhi (harappa) 11.71

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 88% up-brahmin (harappa) + 12% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 2.33
    2 77.9% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) + 22.1% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 2.52
    3 86.4% up-brahmin (harappa) + 13.6% uzbek (behar) @ 2.53
    4 87.7% up-brahmin (harappa) + 12.3% uyghur (hgdp) @ 2.87
    5 85% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) + 15% nogai (yunusbayev) @ 2.9
    6 73.5% vaish (reich) + 26.5% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 2.97
    7 83% up-brahmin (harappa) + 17% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.09
    8 81.5% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) + 18.5% turkmen (yunusbayev) @ 3.13
    9 87.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 12.5% hazara (hgdp) @ 3.15
    10 85.8% up-brahmin (harappa) + 14.2% turkmen (yunusbayev) @ 3.19
    11 50.2% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 49.8% bihari-muslim (harappa) @ 3.24
    12 85.7% nepalese-a (xing) + 14.3% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 3.31
    13 90.8% nepalese-a (xing) + 9.2% romanian-b (behar) @ 3.37
    14 95.6% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.4% georgian (behar) @ 3.43
    15 78.4% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 21.6% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 3.43
    16 95.5% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.5% abhkasian (yunusbayev) @ 3.45
    17 69.5% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) + 30.5% pashtun (harappa) @ 3.46
    18 61.8% nepalese-a (xing) + 38.2% up-muslim (harappa) @ 3.48
    19 76.4% haryana-jatt (harappa) + 23.6% chenchu (metspalu) @ 3.49
    20 95.5% nepalese-a (xing) + 4.5% druze (hgdp) @ 3.5

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  5. #6623
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    United Kingdom Pakistan
    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Thank you for sending me the kit number. I went through the matches and indeed the person has numerous Tarkhan Matches (both Sikh and Muslim tarkhans). One of those matches is my mom's paternal cousin.

    I can't confirm what biradaris he might be mixed with, but he gets 3 confirmed Sembhi matches (my maternal side is sembhi). But he certainly is a Tarkhan.
    Fascinating. Thanks so much for checking this out for me. This Uncle will be super interested to learn this - he's new to DNA testing but very excited and open-minded about it all.

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  7. #6624
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    I guess it's further evidence of the Mughal / Tarkhan link. Any idea on how, historically, this convergence of identities/assumption of new caste took place?

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  9. #6625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    I guess it's further evidence of the Mughal / Tarkhan link. Any idea on how, historically, this convergence of identities/assumption of new caste took place?
    Tarqan/darxan were an elite artisan class of tax exempt Turko-Mongols.
    https://altaica.ru/LIBRARY/CHOI/choi2000.pdf

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  11. #6626
    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Tarqan/darxan were an elite artisan class of tax exempt Turko-Mongols.
    https://altaica.ru/LIBRARY/CHOI/choi2000.pdf
    Does this Turko-Mongolic influence have any implication or impact on their autosomal DNA and uniparental lineages? What is the ethno-genesis of this group?

  12. #6627
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Live View Post
    Does this Turko-Mongolic influence have any implication or impact on their autosomal DNA and uniparental lineages? What is the ethno-genesis of this group?
    My guess would be that the Turko-Mongol artisan class would have merged with the local artisan classes.
    I don't think it is a coincidence that the Tarkhan caste is engaged in carpentry/smithy etc.

    Perhaps on uniparentals. For the Indian subcontinent there is hardly much autosomal effect for a couple of reasons at least - massive local population and hardly any group staying "pure." The Mughals themeselves were quite "Persianized" and perhaps also "Indianized*" prior to entering India (the Indus).

    *Cf. the Caraonas -
    "Nigudar Aghul, or Oghlan, son of (the younger) Juji, son of _Chaghatai_, was the leader of the Chaghataian contingent in Hulaku's expedition, and was still attached to the Mongol-Persian army in 1269"
    Interesting what Marco Polo tells about Nigudar:
    "In this plain there are a number of villages and towns which have lofty walls of mud, made as a defence against the banditti,[NOTE 3] who are very numerous, and are called CARAONAS. This name is given them because they are the sons of Indian mothers by Tartar fathers. ... The King of these scoundrels is called NOGODAR. This Nogodar had gone to the Court of Chagatai, who was own brother to the Great Kaan, with some 10,000 horsemen of his, and abode with him; for Chagatai was his uncle."
    Last edited by parasar; 07-29-2021 at 07:05 PM.

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  14. #6628
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Live View Post
    Does this Turko-Mongolic influence have any implication or impact on their autosomal DNA and uniparental lineages? What is the ethno-genesis of this group?
    Tarkhans have high %age of T Haplogroup (Ydna), all of them have high siberian and NE asian in common. My father is a good example of high Eastern steppe on G25. There are also presence of Y lines like C and Q. Some lines like my grandmother's is J1a exclusively. I agree with parasar regarding Tarkhan Mughals merging with local community.

    Usually there is only 1 tribe/caste that works in certain trade in the region, but in Punjab and nearby regions there is already a tribe called "Khatti/Jhangid/Burhai", that does Carpentery, but are not related to Tarkhans. So we most likely showed up not too long ago and replaced them in certain areas.

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  16. #6629
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    My guess would be that the Turko-Mongol artisan class would have merged with the local artisan classes.
    I don't think it is a coincidence that the Tarkhan caste is engaged in carpentry/smithy etc.

    Perhaps on uniparentals. For the Indian subcontinent there is hardly much autosomal effect for a couple of reasons at least - massive local population and hardly any group staying "pure." The Mughals themeselves were quite "Persianized" and perhaps also "Indianized*" prior to entering India (the Indus).

    *Cf. the Caraonas -
    "Nigudar Aghul, or Oghlan, son of (the younger) Juji, son of _Chaghatai_, was the leader of the Chaghataian contingent in Hulaku's expedition, and was still attached to the Mongol-Persian army in 1269"
    Interesting what Marco Polo tells about Nigudar:
    "In this plain there are a number of villages and towns which have lofty walls of mud, made as a defence against the banditti,[NOTE 3] who are very numerous, and are called CARAONAS. This name is given them because they are the sons of Indian mothers by Tartar fathers. ... The King of these scoundrels is called NOGODAR. This Nogodar had gone to the Court of Chagatai, who was own brother to the Great Kaan, with some 10,000 horsemen of his, and abode with him; for Chagatai was his uncle."
    I don’t think the Mughal/Mongol Tarkhans are the same as the Punjabi Tarkhans, and I don’t think they mixed either to form a group.

    I say this because Punjabi Tarkhans regardless of religious denomination show no significant difference in aDNA, elevated Siberian can be found equally in Muslim, Sikh and Hindu counterparts. And if there was admixture from a Mughal source, there should be religious differences, because a Mughal Muslim elite such as the Tarkhans would not be converting to Sikhism/Hinduism during the heyday of the Mughal Empire. Also, I recall reading that the Mughals didn’t even bring over Turkic/Mongol carpenters, but instead employed Persians and local Indian ones, so I doubt there were even many Turkic carpenters in the Mughal Empire to begin with.

    I think it’s simply a title adopted by the local populace.

    On Harappa, we score quite close to Kashmiris who also have elevated NE Asian/Siberian, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re a sister branch to that population who eventually mixed in with other Punjabi biraderis.
    Last edited by desi; 07-29-2021 at 09:14 PM.

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  18. #6630
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    The Sindhi Tarkhans could be good test case if any still remain there.

    Tomb Of Mirza Essa Khan Tarkhan (The Younger), Thatta
    http://heritage.eftsindh.com/site/10...khan-tarkhan-2
    "After Sindh was conquered by the Mughal Emperor Akbar, Mirza Isa II from the ruling Turkic Tarkhan family was brought into the Mughal court and briefly served as governor of Gujrat. Upon his return to Sindh, he brought back architectural styles from Gujrat, which were merged with Central Asian and early Sindhi forms yielding unique masterpieces such as this royal tomb complex."

    Tarkhan/Arghun-nama
    https://books.google.com/books?id=dMgNAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA303

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