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Thread: Albanian Linguistics

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    For starters it isn't known if the Illyrian language was Centum or Satem. The Centum argument was mainly based on the supposed connection between Illyrian and Venetic, this connection has been debunked. It also isn't known whether there actually was an "Illyrian" language, it's just as likely that the Illyrians spoke different but related languages.

    The relation between Romanian and Albanian is due to the high amount of Latin loanwords in Albanian (around 40% or maybe more). There are some cognates between Albanian and Romanian that could potentially come from a Paleo-Balkan substrate, but we need further evidence to know what language these words came from.
    There are 300 words common between Romanian and Albanian, that are not due to Greek or Latin or East Germanic or Slavic or Turkish influence.
    As for example bardh in Albanian(in English, white) and barza in Romanian(in English, stork) - if you do not see the connection, the stork is White .The examples could continue.
    Those common words between Romanian and Albanian are not from Daco-Thracian language?

    Other fun cognates:
    English - Finger, Romanian, deget, Albanian, branch, degė.
    The finger is a "branch" of the hand, this is how is explained.

    Creek , in English,
    pėrrua in Albanian
    Pārāu in Romanian
    Same meaning.

    Albanians are very close on genetics with NW Italians, most of them.
    Maybe even if Illyrians were not Eastern Europeans,as genetics, they were speaking a Satem language.
    Is hard to find out how Centum and Satem languages have come in Europe.
    A strange thing in Albanian is the presence of the sound dh which is identical with the English voiced th.
    This is not actually same sound with z from the Slavic and BaltoSlavic.

    Other things, Albanian got lots of ė which is identical with English schwa sound and Romanian also gots lots of ė/schwa, but not as many as Albanian has.
    Slavic and BaltoSlavic, from the other Satem European languages, do not have so many ė/schwa.

    I am curious if there is any other IE Language with so many ė/schwa as Albanian.
    Last edited by mihaitzateo; 09-26-2019 at 01:15 PM.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    There are 300 words common between Romanian and Albanian, that are not due to Greek or Latin or East Germanic or Slavic or Turkish influence.
    As for example bardh in Albanian(in English, white) and barza in Romanian(in English, stork) - if you do not see the connection, the stork is White .The examples could continue.
    Those common words between Romanian and Albanian are not from Daco-Thracian language?

    Other fun cognates:
    English - Finger, Romanian, deget, Albanian, branch, degė.
    The finger is a "branch" of the hand, this is how is explained.

    Creek , in English,
    pėrrua in Albanian
    Pārāu in Romanian
    Same meaning.
    No they are not, they are loan words from proto-Albanian into proto-Romanian. This is well established.

    You are so desperate to be a daco-romanian that lost his language and was assimilated by romans, that you emotionally require Albanian to not be "illyrian" but "daco-thracian" so that these loan words can be an argument to ease your identity crisis. Go onto a thread about your own language and stop spamming and derailing Albanian related threads.

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  4. #133
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    Ok, just verified this, Albanian got some direct cognates to English and some cognates that shows the interaction of more ancient Albanians with ancient Romanians.
    Fun cognates, in Romanian, you tell to the mix of water with flour and yeast, maia.
    In Albanian, you tell to the verb leaven maja .

    More fun with Romanian and Albanian connections:

    In ancient Romanian, when you were telling that you are walking slowly, you used the verb agale
    And in Albanian, you tell to slow, ngadalė.


    So, this is common words between Dacian and Illyrian languages.

  5. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    No they are not, they are loan words from proto-Albanian into proto-Romanian. This is well established.

    You are so desperate to be a daco-romanian that lost his language and was assimilated by romans, that you emotionally require Albanian to not be "illyrian" but "daco-thracian" so that these loan words can be an argument to ease your identity crisis. Go onto a thread about your own language and stop spamming and derailing Albanian related threads.
    I have not said Albanian is Daco-Thracian, I just said that are common words that are comming in Romanian from Dacian language and in Albanian, from Illyrian language.
    Just another cognate, between Albanian and current Irish Gaelic:
    Water
    Albanian - ui
    Irish Gaelic(Celtic language) - uisce.
    If you mind me participating in this thread, I will stop posting here.
    Last edited by mihaitzateo; 09-26-2019 at 01:52 PM.

  6. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    There are 300 words common between Romanian and Albanian, that are not due to Greek or Latin or East Germanic or Slavic or Turkish influence.
    As for example bardh in Albanian(in English, white) and barza in Romanian(in English, stork) - if you do not see the connection, the stork is White .The examples could continue.
    Those common words between Romanian and Albanian are not from Daco-Thracian language?

    Other fun cognates:
    English - Finger, Romanian, deget, Albanian, branch, degė.
    The finger is a "branch" of the hand, this is how is explained.

    Creek , in English,
    pėrrua in Albanian
    Pārāu in Romanian
    Same meaning.

    Albanians are very close on genetics with NW Italians, most of them.
    Maybe even if Illyrians were not Eastern Europeans,as genetics, they were speaking a Satem language.
    Is hard to find out how Centum and Satem languages have come in Europe.
    A strange thing in Albanian is the presence of the sound dh which is identical with the English voiced th.
    This is not actually same sound with z from the Slavic and BaltoSlavic.

    Other things, Albanian got lots of ė which is identical with English schwa sound and Romanian also gots lots of ė/schwa, but not as many as Albanian has.
    Slavic and BaltoSlavic, from the other Satem European languages, do not have so many ė/schwa.

    I am curious if there is any other IE Language with so many ė/schwa as Albanian.
    Albanian and Romanian do share Paleo-Balkan substrate words, but many of those words could easily just have been loanwords from Proto-Albanian in Proto-Romanian. We do know that the Proto-Albanians were in contact with an Early Eastern Romance speaking population, though the place of contact was more to the West by the looks of it. Vladimir Orel seems to have also suggested that they were Early Albanian loanwords. Now, I won't deny that there are some Albanian-Romanian cognates that derive from either a Thracian or Dacian language.

    The word "barza" (stork) itself could potentially be a loan from Proto-Albanian "bardza" (white). Romanian "deget" (finger) doesn't seem to be related to the "dege" (branch), "deget" derives from the Latin "digitus" whilst "dege" derives from Proto-Albanian "duaiga".

    I found this pdf on the Schwa in Albanian https://www.kfs.oeaw.ac.at/publicati...n_albanian.pdf. According to this, the Schwa is a phoneme restricted to the Tosk dialects of Southern Albania, Gheg dialects exhibit back rounded vowels. There also seems to be variation within the Gheg and Tosk dialects themselves.
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  7. #136
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    How are explained some identical cognates between Albanian and English?
    For example:
    English Ram (the male of the sheep)
    Albanian Ram - the same meaning.
    This is a Germanic word in English, it seems.

    Same thing with Salmon, which is same in Albanian and English.
    Taken from Latin, I suppose.

  8. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johane Derite View Post
    Actually, the "uo" that is seen in some NW Gheg regions is the most archaic of ua/ue/uo. This diphthong comes originally from an ō which became uo which split into ue in gheg and ua in tosk.

    For example, the word Alb. "Shuall" 'sole of the foot' is a loanword from Latin. "solum"

    In Buzuku he uses "uo".

    So "uo" is the more archaic of the three. This dipthongisation also seems to have happened prior the slavic invasions, and is present in both latin and inherited words, meaning it must have happened post roman invasions.
    We use also the word sholl/ė.
    http://www.fjalorshqip.com/
    Rezultatet e kėrkimit nė fjalorin shqip-shqip

    SHOLLĖ f. sh.

    1. Lėkurė gjedhėsh e regjur, prej sė cilės bėhen pjesėt e poshtme tė kėpucėve, shuall; shtresė gome qė pėrdoret pėr tabanin e kėpucėve; pjesa e poshtme e kėpucės, tabani. Shollė kau (bualli). Shollė gome. Gjysma sholle. U janė ngrėnė shollat. I ėshtė bėrė lėkura shollė i ėshtė bėrė lėkura e trashė dhe e fortė, si e regjur.

    2. krahin. Opinga, kėpucė. Sholla tė reja (tė vjetra). Sholla me lak. Sholla me hundė opinga me majė. Sholla me xhufka. Njė palė sholla. Ishin pa sholla nė kėmbė.

    3. krahin. Gjurmashka prej leshi, tė thurura si ēorapet; putra e ēorapit.

    4. Shputa e kėmbės, shualli i kėmbės. * I ėshtė bėrė faqja shollė nuk ka mė turp e sedėr, nuk i bėjnė mė pėrshtypje kritikat e qortimet, ėshtė i pacipė. I ėshtė bėrė lėkura (e ka lėkurėn) shollė ėshtė regjur e s'do t’ia dijė mė pėr diēka, s'ndien mė, s'pyet pėr fjalėt, sharjet etj. I futi (i hodhi) njė gur nė shollė (nė opingė, nė kėpucė) dikujt shih te GUR,~I.


    SHOLLOMOTKĖ f. krahin.

    1. Raki a verė jo e mirė, e dobėt dhe e turbullt.

    2. Pėrd. mb. sipas kuptimit tė emrit. Raki (verė) shollomotkė.


    SHOLLONDUR m. krahin.

    Copė qė mbetet nga njė bagėti, tė cilėn e ka ngrėnė ujku, nishan, shenjė. Ia gjeti shollondurin. * U bė shollondur u vra keq nė shumė vende, u bė copė (kur bie).

    U gjetėn 3 fjalė qė fillojnė me [ "SHOLL*" ]
    Last edited by Labėria; 09-27-2019 at 10:09 AM.

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  10. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    How are explained some identical cognates between Albanian and English?
    For example:
    English Ram (the male of the sheep)
    Albanian Ram - the same meaning.
    This is a Germanic word in English, it seems.

    Same thing with Salmon, which is same in Albanian and English.
    Taken from Latin, I suppose.
    The Albanian word for Ram is actually "Dash", "Ram" isn't a word in Albanian.

    The cognates between Albanian and English are primarily due to the significant Latin influence in both languages. Interestingly however, there are some linguists (like user Agamemmnon mentioned) who believe that Albanian (or the language ancestral to Albanian) and the Germanic languages split from a common ancestor sometime during the 3rd Millennium BC.
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  12. #139
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    Matzinger argues that Orel, Hamp, etc are outdated in supporting a North-IE origin for Albanian. Tocharian, Phrygian, Armenian, Greek, and Albanian were all part of one "Balkan-IE" group according to innovations they share that are lacking in other IE language:



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