Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 2101112
Results 111 to 119 of 119

Thread: Ancient genomes of Srubnaya, Cimmerians, Scythians and Sarmatians(Science, 2018)

  1. #111
    Registered Users
    Posts
    176
    Sex

    RE: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

    Does someone explain to me, why srubnaya people has small famer gene than sintashta and andronovo?

    Sintashta settlements located in the east of Ural Mt, totally being isolated. (I don’t understand how their arsenic bronze survived from Tin bronze seima turbino.)
    Moreover srubnaya blocked farmer to access to andronovo.

    Sintashta:


    Srubna expansion:


    https://indo-european.eu/2018/08/the...ashta-culture/
    https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedi...uthern-russia/
    Last edited by johen; 01-06-2019 at 05:23 AM.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to johen For This Useful Post:

     Alain (01-07-2019),  Hando (01-06-2019),  palamede (01-06-2019)

  3. #112
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,809
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    RE: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

    Does someone explain to me, why srubnaya people has small famer gene than sintashta and andronovo?
    Sintashta came from the west.

    The mystery of the Sintashta people

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Alain (01-07-2019),  Hando (01-06-2019)

  5. #113
    Registered Users
    Posts
    176
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    RE: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

    Does someone explain to me, why srubnaya people has small famer gene than sintashta and andronovo?

    Sintashta settlements located in the east of Ural Mt, totally being isolated. (I don’t understand how their arsenic bronze survived from Tin bronze seima turbino.)
    Moreover srubnaya blocked farmer to access to andronovo.

    Sintashta:


    Srubna expansion:


    https://indo-european.eu/2018/08/the...ashta-culture/
    https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedi...uthern-russia/
    one more question?

    How come srubnaya people could have east asian gene, even if andronovo people didn't have?

    According to 2017 scythian paper of Harvad, the east asian gene appeared in altai at iron age for the first time, I think.

    Anthropologically, Andronove culture has three types of skulls, but no east asian mongoloid admixture at all by 2013 Russian paper. Interesting thing is srubnaya skull is close to afanasievo.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to johen For This Useful Post:

     Hando (01-09-2019),  palamede (01-11-2019)

  7. #114
    Registered Users
    Posts
    176
    Sex

    Chetan 5 months ago
    "As I have said many times already (see e.g. here) the outsider pastoralists, forming originally the vast majority of the population, were most likely Pre-Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers of haplogroup R1b-Z2103, and their elite groups (whose inheritance system was based on kinship) probably incorporated gradually Uralic-speaking families "

    Isn't it more likely that the elites were the Proto Indo-Iranian speakers and the majority "commoner" herders were Uralics or perhaps a mix of various Neolithic groups. But the elite kurgans yielded much more z93 than R1b so that's probably an issue. The admixture process probably started on the cis side of the Urals many centuries before Sintashta and maybe that's why Sintashta elites were a majority z93.

    There's a lot of inconsistencies in the dating of the Sintashta-Andronovo phenomenon. For example, you can refer to this article which shows Andronovo presence in Xinjiang in 1900-1800 BEC that is during the Sintashta-Petrovka phase.

    https://www.cambridge.org/c...

    More likely that Sintashta was a local phenomenon than the origin of all Andronovo group
    https://indo-european.eu/2018/08/the...ashta-culture/

    How do we think about this opinion?

    Actually, sintashta settlements located in the east of Ural, not southern Urals, extremely cold area. Before their settlements, Surtanda culture was in there, which has geometrical pottery like sintashta and andronovo's pottery.
    Even if they needed mining in Ural, they did not choose the west of Ural, but east. It means that they had a barricade against west, and open to siberian warlord, seima turbino. why?
    Another thing is "why the west people went to altai first for animal husbandry and mining, not to sintashta area?

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to johen For This Useful Post:

     palamede (01-11-2019)

  9. #115
    Registered Users
    Posts
    59
    Sex
    Location
    Haifa
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & Slavic
    Nationality
    Israel & Russia
    Y-DNA
    I2a1b - S17250
    mtDNA
    R0a4

    Israel Israel Jerusalem Russian Federation Serbia Montenegro
    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    Actually, sintashta settlements located in the east of Ural, not southern Urals, extremely cold area.
    That's not an extremely cold area, this is not mouth of Yana, and this is not Polar Urals. The territory has continental climate with warm or even hot summer and cold winter. Even to the north from Sintashta territory it is possible to produce grain. I do not know what the climate was to the south from Sintashta territory, now it is a very dry steppe - even less pleasant climate.
    Last edited by artemv; 01-11-2019 at 02:40 PM.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to artemv For This Useful Post:

     eolien (01-11-2019),  palamede (01-11-2019)

  11. #116
    Registered Users
    Posts
    176
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    That's not an extremely cold area, this is not mouth of Yana, and this is not Polar Urals. The territory has continental climate with warm or even hot summer and cold winter. Even to the north from Sintashta territory it is possible to produce grain. I do not know what the climate was to the south from Sintashta territory, now it is a very dry steppe - even less pleasant climate.
    I thought the east urals are colder than the southern urals;
    This process forced families to stay together and fueled the necessity in the walled villages for ensuring the reproduction of herds in the extreme climatic conditions of the southern Urals that are colder and dryer than the eastern Black Sea region from which the Sintashta populations are thought to have migrated (Kuzmina 1994, 2007;Anthony 2007; Vinogradov 2011, etc.).
    Did they produce grain also?
    As Anthony remarks in this symposium, there is really no serious evidence for arable agriculture (domestic cereals) east of the Dnieper until after c 2000 BCE (see also Ryabogina & Ivanov 2011; Mallory, in press:a).

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to johen For This Useful Post:

     palamede (01-12-2019)

  13. #117
    Registered Users
    Posts
    59
    Sex
    Location
    Haifa
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & Slavic
    Nationality
    Israel & Russia
    Y-DNA
    I2a1b - S17250
    mtDNA
    R0a4

    Israel Israel Jerusalem Russian Federation Serbia Montenegro
    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    the extreme climatic conditions of the southern Urals that are colder and dryer than the eastern Black Sea region from which the Sintashta populations are thought to have migrated
    Climatic conditions of South-Eastern Ural (where Sintashta lived) are indeed colder and dryer comparing to the eastern Black Sea region.
    Currently it is a region where millions of people live (3,5 million only in Chelyabinsk_Oblast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelyabinsk_Oblast).
    5 minutes in wikipedia and I found climate classification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humid_continental_climate
    You can also find there the map of territories with the same climate. This is not the climate we would call 'extreme'.

    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    Did they produce grain also?
    Grain is produced there now. I mentioned this to support my claim that the climate there is not so harsh.
    They where pastoralists, but not nomads, and lived in fortificated settlements. Animal husbandry was the major source of food for them, I do not know if they produced grain (I guess they didn't).

  14. #118
    Registered Users
    Posts
    176
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    As I remembered, in 1st scythian paper of harvard lab, sarmatian had R1b. Now scythian had R1b also. R1b is added to scythian main group of R1a-z93 and Q1a. Don't forget they had cannibalism like american indian historically and archaeologically (I mean the child and his next offsprings, who are raised by wolf living in wolf culture, are just wolves. So Nomad did not cut off a boy, who is below 10 years. Their human genetics are meaningless. Nomad is always integrated by their culture. see the scythian artifacts, which are all the same.)

    Anyway, I think the Trio Hg is very important, b/c Scythian R1a-z93 is related with Aryan, Q1a would have something to do with bronze china, where mongol horse, seima-turbo(or karashuk) sword and west-asian style chariot were found, being buried like sintashta burial type. Moreover, tons of IE language also
    http://sino-platonic.org/complete/sp...ld_chinese.pdf

    Now R1b, which would be connected to ancient Greek???

    see the artifacts of connection between ancient China bronze and ancient Greek: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...836#post534836. (post 14)

    check: the ancient greek burial type: east eurasian supine


    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/1...y-january.html

    So, the very knowledgeable Vara think the mountain is Caucasus, but I think the Atai(tin mining), b/c okunevo has the same petroglyph like votan of mesoamerica, odin, zeus and Indra. Of course, they had third eye culture like in India.
    This year Harvard lab should get DNA in Okunevo "Tuva"

    P.s for srubnaya people:
    where had they been? Why did they have so small farmer genes?
    I forgot Okunevo has blue eyes R1b-m269 also. R1a-z93 would be in Okunevo, tuva.
    Thus, scyhtian R1b, Q1a, and R1a-z93 spread okunevo animal art culture by archaeology.
    Before them, the trio would spread the important concept also:



    Okunveo:
    Last edited by johen; 01-13-2019 at 08:56 PM.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to johen For This Useful Post:

     palamede (01-14-2019)

  16. #119
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,105
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    RE: http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

    Does someone explain to me, why srubnaya people has small famer gene than sintashta and andronovo?
    Srubnaya, Sintashta, and Andronovo are all very similar. Based on the (outliers excluded) averages in my dataset.

    Andronovo - 61% Steppe_EBA, 22% EEF, 9% WHG, 8% Siberian
    Sintashta - 62% Steppe_EBA, 25% EEF, 11% WHG, 2% Siberian
    Srubnaya - 66% Steppe_EBA, 22% EEF, 11% WHG, 1% Siberian

    Okunevo - 39% Botai, 43% Baikal_BA, 18% Steppe_EBA

    EDIT:
    Pretty interesting how similar I6561 (Alexandria_CA) is to these later ones.
    I6561 - 59% Steppe_EBA, 28% EEF, 13% WHG
    I slightly suspect that this may be coincidental though. Western European HG (LaBrana1, Loschbour, Bichon, Motala_HG, Villabruna) all have a small but consistent preference for Sintashta/Srubnaya.
    Ukraine_Mesolithic & Neolithic both slightly prefer Alexandria_CA.
    Others (Iron_Gates, KO1, Latvia_HG, EHG) show no discernible preference.

    I4110 (Dereivka_CA) kind of different. Trades Steppe_EBA for a ton of Ukraine_NHG
    I4110 - 38% Steppe_EBA, 25% EEF, 11% WHG, 26% Ukraine_NHG
    Last edited by Kale; 01-14-2019 at 01:04 AM.
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, or f3-outgroup nmonte models. Looking for: KEB-IAM-TOR and Baikal_EN in plink/eigenstrat 1240k panel

  17. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Kale For This Useful Post:

     johen (01-14-2019),  palamede (01-14-2019),  Pribislav (01-14-2019)

Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 2101112

Similar Threads

  1. Are the Scythians/Sarmatians Iranic?
    By Brent.B in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 204
    Last Post: 05-31-2018, 07:45 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-11-2017, 09:47 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-11-2017, 09:41 PM
  4. A golden age of ancient DNA science begins
    By PLogan in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-22-2016, 02:37 PM
  5. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 12-14-2015, 11:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •