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Thread: L23 from Anatolia

  1. #1
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    L23 from Anatolia

    Hello,

    I got my yDNA result from National Geographic Helix 2.0 a month ago after which I have been researching what my haplogroup meant and how I could go further to find my terminal SNP. My test results show that my haplogroup is R-L23. I can see that there are branches of L23 yet I do not know if I have been tested with those. Do you know if Helix tests for Z2103? What do you advice for further testing, do you think an STR test makes sense now?
    I am from Çankırı, Turkey which is located in middle of Turkey. From records, we know that we've been in this city for about two centuries with no non-Turkish speaking descendance.
    Last edited by saygun; 10-07-2018 at 09:12 AM.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by saygun View Post
    Hello,

    I got my yDNA result from National Geographic Helix 2.0 a month ago after which I have been researching what my haplogroup meant and how I could go further to find my terminal SNP. My test results show that my haplogroup is R-L23. I can see that there are branches of L23 yet I do not know if I have been tested with those. Do you know if Helix tests for Z2103? What do you advice for further testing, do you think an STR test makes sense now?
    I am from Çankırı, Turkey which is located in middle of Turkey. From records, we know that we've been in this city for about two centuries with no non-Turkish speaking descendance.
    Hello saygun. Welcome to the Anthrogenica forum. It's difficult to tell what haplogroup you belong to from National Geographic Helix 2.0 results. Knowing which SNPs you are negative for can be just as important as the positive ones. The other problem is they are way behind in developing the basal haplogroup branches that you most certainly belong to. I'm thinking that you are probably R1b-Z2103 too. I'm not sure they cover Z2103. A few of the downstream SNPs were covered in past versions of their test. Please consider transferring your results to Family Tree DNA and joining the R1b Basal Subclades Project. Then ordering a minimal number of STRs so that your kit is visible in the project DNA results section. That will allow the administrators to take a look at your results and maybe have a good idea of what broad haplogroup your sample belongs to. One of the neat things about getting samples from your part of the world is finding new branches. It happens fairly frequently. Because of that, getting a next generation sequencing test would be valuable to both you and to building the Y DNA phylogenetic haplotree.
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...-subclades/dna
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2103/
    https://isogg.org/wiki/Next_generation_sequencing
    Last edited by Joe B; 10-07-2018 at 06:26 PM.
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    Please consider transferring your results to Family Tree DNA and joining the R1b Basal Subclades Project.
    Unfortunately National Geographic Helix results are not transferrable to FTDNA, and I can not also download the raw data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    Then ordering a minimal number of STRs so that your kit is visible in the project DNA results section. That will allow the administrators to take a look at your results and maybe have a good idea of what broad haplogroup your sample belongs to.
    I think the minimal STR test is Y-37 costing around $169. Considering the fact that I already paid for a test, this price now seems even higher for me. And I feel like I am wasting my NatGeo test results. I found out that single SNP tests are available on YSEQ. I can try a single one and in case I turn out to be Z2103, there's also a Z2103 panel test where they cover a few branches. So do you think it makes sense to have a single Z2103 test and a panel test afterwards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    One of the neat things about getting samples from your part of the world is finding new branches. It happens fairly frequently. Because of that, getting a next generation sequencing test would be valuable to both you and to building the Y DNA phylogenetic haplotree.
    I would really like to have it, but it's something that I can not do at this time.

  6. #4
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    That sounds like a reasonable plan. Sorry I didn't keep up-to-date with National Geo and transfers to FTDNA.YSeq is a good company and their R1b-Z2103 Panel looks pretty good for Z2108 + clades and a little weak for the A366 and FGC14589 clades. At least it should tide you over until an NGS test becomes more viable for you. If you are Z2103+, please join YSeq group R1b-L23_Z2103 & Subclades.
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

  7. #5
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    I got my result from YSEQ for Z2103 test and it looks like I am positive for the mutation G to C. Now I need a comprehensive test, there's a Z2103 pack test at FTDNA but it requires ordering an STR test first. So I will go for YSEQ again.

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  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by saygun View Post
    I got my result from YSEQ for Z2103 test and it looks like I am positive for the mutation G to C. Now I need a comprehensive test, there's a Z2103 pack test at FTDNA but it requires ordering an STR test first. So I will go for YSEQ again.
    Sent a message to YSeq urging them to beef up thier R1b-Z2103 panel for your potential subclades.
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

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  11. #7
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    YSEQ is showing my test results as they go for new SNPs, I did not have to wait till the end of complete test to see some results. I regularly check my alleles and last week the test for CTS9219 resulted negative. And now I can see two more SNPs tested, Z2106- and FGC14589+/Y13369+. I did not like this as I lost almost %80 of all SNPs in the pack and maybe will not be able to find a much more recent ancestor.
    On the left are the remaining subclades in YSEQ test. I had a look at the tree from FTDNA and yfull.com and tried to find the correspondance between all. It seems that I will not be tested for R-PH1639/R-Y18781 which represents the second largest subclade under R-584.

    fgc14589.png y13369.PNG

    If I turn out to be negative for FGC14590, I may have to wish an SNP test for Y18781 as it is not in their catalog.

  12. #8
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    Welcome to phylogenetic bracketing. I would use the YFull haplotree simply because it's easier to use. You can use other SNPs on the same phylogenetic level. YSeq will use SNPs that are best suited for Sanger sequencing.
    https://www.yfull.com/branch-info/R-Y18781/#t2-tab
    One thing labs don't do that you can do is test brackets that make geographic sense first. This should eliminate some unnecessary testing. There's always the possibility that you could be one of those rare individuals that is R1b-FGC14589+/Y13369+ (L584) just to make it interesting.

    A couple of historical threads that you might find of interest.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....-L277-and-L584
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....F7580-amp-L584

    Administrators, would you mind moving this thread to the R1b-Z2103/Z2105 forum?
    https://anthrogenica.com/forumdispla...1b-Z2103-Z2105
    Last edited by Joe B; 11-25-2018 at 10:14 PM.
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

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  14. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    One thing labs don't do that you can do is test brackets that make geographic sense first. This should eliminate some unnecessary testing. There's always the possibility that you could be one of those rare individuals that is R1b-FGC14589+/Y13369+ (L584) just to make it interesting.

    A couple of historical threads that you might find of interest.
    Thanks for pointing that out. Just an update, I was checking my account on NatGeo for no reason, and played with "transferring to ftdna" option again. I do not know what has changed since 4 months before, but I was actually able to transfer my Helix results to FTDNA this time. FTDNA says that I am R-PF7580 which I believe is an equivalent SNP to FGC14590. YSEQ's already testing me with known subclades of it. So I will probably be able to find my terminal SNP.
    Last edited by saygun; 11-26-2018 at 08:58 PM.

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  16. #10
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    I got my final results, Z2103+ CTS9219- Z2106- FGC14589+ FGC14617- Y19434+ A12333+ A12343+
    I think this puts me under R-A12337 at ytree.

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