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Thread: Are proto nilotics a combination of proto proto mbuti and proto mota?

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    Are proto nilotics a combination of proto proto mbuti and proto mota?

    Thatís what Iíve heard, someone please enlighten me Iím not a huge expert on the genetic anthropology of proto Nilotic

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    They do not come from either.

    Mota is native to the Ethiopian highlands.
    Mbutis are native to Congo basin forests.

    Nilotes are from Chad to Sudan region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NetNomad View Post
    They do not come from either.

    Mota is native to the Ethiopian highlands.
    Mbutis are native to Congo basin forests.

    Nilotes are from Chad to Sudan region.
    Insteresting can you link me a source? I thought their ancestor originated between south sudan and tanzania

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    Quote Originally Posted by afbarwaaqo View Post
    Insteresting can you link me a source? I thought their ancestor originated between south sudan and tanzania
    Nilotes are not from Tanzania.

    The aboriginals Tanzanians were similar to the Hadza and Mota and the next group to make contact with them were pastoralist South Cushites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NetNomad View Post
    Nilotes are not from Tanzania.

    The aboriginals Tanzanians were similar to the Hadza and Mota and the next group to make contact with them were pastoralist South Cushites.
    I mean one of the ancient ancestor they descended from, from what Iíve heard they share a similar ancient ancestor with the hadza, sandawe and pygmy that originated somewhere between south sudan and tanzania and when they migrated to Sudan they developed their own unique autosomal dna
    Last edited by afbarwaaqo; 10-12-2018 at 01:02 AM. Reason: Mistake

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    Africa: Nilotic (Anthropology)

    "The term ‘Nilotic’ is used in various senses. First, it describes the geographical region of the upper Nile basin as in The Pagan Tribes of the Nilotic Sudan, the title of the Seligmans’ (1932) comprehensive ethnography of the region. Second, it refers to a set of cultural traits shared by some, but not all, of the peoples of the upper Nile, with others in an area extending south beyond the Nile basin into Uganda, Kenya, and Tanzania. Finally, Nilotic describes a language family in a classification of languages. Nilotic studies are significant not only in themselves but because they have also produced anthropological works which have had a great influence on the discipline generally.
    Historical linguistic research into the Nilotic languages, together with a consideration of the contemporary geographical distribution of languages, suggest that the original proto-Nilotic language community in their homeland to the southwest of the southern Ethiopian highlands probably started to break up into three groups about 4,000 years ago. These groups of proto-Nilotic then began to change independently into the ancestral languages of what are today recognized as the western, eastern, and southern Nilotic groups of languages (Ehret 1971; Greenberg 1955; Kohler 1955).
    Those who were to become the speakers of Western Nilotic (e.g. Dinka, Nuer, Luo) seem likely to have moved first and in a westerly direction to occupy the grasslands around the confluence of the Bahr el Ghazal and the Nile. The proto-Southern Nilotes, having been for a long time in contact with neighbouring Cushitic-speaking peoples in their homeland north of Lake Turkana, had acquired from them not only Cushitic vocabularies but also social practices such as circumcision, clitoridectomy, a prohibition on eating fish, and cyclical age set naming systems, all of which are not known among the Western Nilotes. By the first century of the present era the Southern Nilotic speakers (e.g. Nandi, Pokot, Marakwet) had moved south, some into what is today Tanzania, and there they encountered agricultural Bantu-speaking peoples moving north, from whom they adopted root crops and banana cultivation to add to their cultivation of grains, sorghum and millet, and their pastoralism.



    Most of the Eastern Nilotic speech communities (e.g. Bari, Lotuko, Turkana) are now found in what is likely to have been their original homeland between Lake Turkana and the Nile, but some of them, the predecessors of the present-day Maasai peoples of Kenya and Tanzania, had followed the Southern Nilotic speakers south. There, during the course of several hundred years up to the end of the first millennium, they absorbed some of the Southern Nilotes and at the same time adopted many of their practices, some of which, such as circumcision, could be traced back to origins among Cushitic peoples. In this way those Eastern Nilotes who followed the Southern Nilotes, adding to whatever Cushitic traits they may already have acquired before migrating south, acquired further Cushitic practices from the Southern Nilotes as intermediaries.
    These terms western, eastern and southern Nilotic correspond roughly with the old ethnological division of the people into Nilotes, Northern and Central Nilo-Hamites, and Southern Nilo-Hamites, terms which will be commonly encountered in literature published before the mid-1960s. This terminology derived from a now-discredited speculative theory of racial mixing to account for the distribution of Nilotic social and cultural features. A great deal of scholarship was devoted to adducing evidence that pale-skinned, slim and ‘quick witted’ mobile pastoral Caucasians of noble disposition, the supposed Hamites, entered northeast Africa and subordinated the sturdy but slow-witted, dark-skinned sedentary agricultural Negroes; and from which process emerged the Nilotes, and those with rather more Hamitic ‘blood’, the Nilo-Hamites (Seligman and Seligman 1932)."

    IMO only proto mbuti! and were carrying only haplogroups A and B.
    "A 4,500-year-old skeleton from a cave in Ethiopia has produced Africa’s first ancient human genome. The man’s DNA suggests that Middle Eastern farmers migrated into Africa several thousand years ago, leaving traces of their Eurasian ancestry in the genomes of many modern-day Africans."
    Last edited by Omaar; 10-13-2018 at 09:03 AM.

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    This is a relief from Nilotic People of Sudan . The Nilots are People of African origin that inhabited most of North African savanna from Sudan to the Atlantic for thousands of years . They are not natives of the Sahara. They are efforts by many wonna be Arabs in the Sahel to suppress History by claiming that Nilots come from the South of Sudan..well unless Ancient Egyptian war raiding south Sudan since the pre dynastic time , then that cannot be further from the truth.

    Most of Modern Sudan , Chad , Libya , southern Algerian to Mauritania was inhabited by Black African. The Fact that Sudan has 83% MTDNA that is similar to the rest of Africa tell the horrors of Arabic invasion and the systematic extermination of Black Men by white arabs. These is one of the most brutal and barbaric part of African history . When i talk about arabs i mean white arabs not the original Arabs from southern Yemen who where East Africans that moved north across Arabia...most of them faced the same brutal extermination by white "arabs"

    Due to the customs of the day Male children born out of captured and raped Black women war arabanized and inherited the names of their father , These trauma of forced arabanisation has left the cult of NAME as prove of Arab root in most of NE africa. These barbaric brutal Arabanisation of Africans was characterized by capture , castration and mass extermination of Black African men and the rape of Millions of women. The horrors of these Era made African to run to remote inaccessible Jungles adopt body art that made then look scary and unattractive to deter the slave /rapist gangs from across the red sea. The Mursi women started to wear the mouth lip plate to avoid being gang raped or captured as slaves.

    Let us not sanitize History by pretending that the oldest human remain with DNA came from outside Africa some 4500 years agao. African have been living in Africa for at least 150,000 years . There enough Human remains with enough DNA all across North Africa ....518RRF2497L._SX298_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg This Gentle man dressed in Fine calourful linen is a Nilot living in the Sudan 4000 years agao . He is neither Barbaric nor did he originate from south Sudan . He lived where he ancestor always lived in the Sahel .

    Arab colonialization of Northern Africa is one of the most barbaric , brutal and bloody part of the series of Africas colonial History ...European Colonialization of Africa is a walk in the park in comparison and even to this day Arabs remain hostile ,brutal and Barbaric to Black African

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    This is a relief from Nilotic People of Sudan . The Nilots are People of African origin that inhabited most of North African savanna from Sudan to the Atlantic for thousands of years . They are not natives of the Sahara. They are efforts by many wonna be Arabs in the Sahel to suppress History by claiming that Nilots come from the South of Sudan..well unless Ancient Egyptian war raiding south Sudan since the pre dynastic time , then that cannot be further from the truth.

    Most of Modern Sudan , Chad , Libya , southern Algerian to Mauritania was inhabited by Black African. The Fact that Sudan has 83% MTDNA that is similar to the rest of Africa tell the horrors of Arabic invasion and the systematic extermination of Black Men by white arabs. These is one of the most brutal and barbaric part of African history . When i talk about arabs i mean white arabs not the original Arabs from southern Yemen who where East Africans that moved north across Arabia...most of them faced the same brutal extermination by white "arabs"

    Due to the customs of the day Male children born out of captured and raped Black women war arabanized and inherited the names of their father , These trauma of forced arabanisation has left the cult of NAME as prove of Arab root in most of NE africa. These barbaric brutal Arabanisation of Africans was characterized by capture , castration and mass extermination of Black African men and the rape of Millions of women. The horrors of these Era made African to run to remote inaccessible Jungles adopt body art that made then look scary and unattractive to deter the slave /rapist gangs from across the red sea. The Mursi women started to wear the mouth lip plate to avoid being gang raped or captured as slaves.

    Let us not sanitize History by pretending that the oldest human remain with DNA came from outside Africa some 4500 years agao. African have been living in Africa for at least 150,000 years . There enough Human remains with enough DNA all across North Africa ....518RRF2497L._SX298_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg This Gentle man dressed in Fine calourful linen is a Nilot living in the Sudan 4000 years agao . He is neither Barbaric nor did he originate from south Sudan . He lived where he ancestor always lived in the Sahel .

    Arab colonialization of Northern Africa is one of the most barbaric , brutal and bloody part of the series of Africas colonial History ...European Colonialization of Africa is a walk in the park in comparison and even to this day Arabs remain hostile ,brutal and Barbaric to Black African

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    Future studies will probably shoe these guys originate in the central sahara.

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    I don't think I've ever seen a genetic analysis really digging into Nilotic ancestry. They seem to be broadly Nilo-Saharan (i.e. the non-Bantu, non-Omotic, non-West Eurasian/North African kind of East African), with lots of different mixture on top of that, but does anyone know anything more detailed?

    Some quick and dirty Global25 models:
    Dinka - 79% Gumuz, 11% Yoruba, 10% BantuKenya - distance %5.1083
    Dinka (ancients only) - 61% Mota, 39% Tanzania_Pemba_700BP - distance %10.9246
    Maasai - 50% Gumuz, 31% Ethiopian Jew, 19% Dinka - distance %2.3062
    Maasai - 51% Dinka, 49% Somali - distance %2.6498
    Luo - 91% Luhya_Kenya, 9% Dinka - distance %1.3169

    Dinka are quite West African-shifted relative to Mota and Gumuz, which is not necessarily due to anything recent. They don't take Mbuti in the mix (occasionally maybe <1%). The Maasai appear to be heavily admixed with Cushitic(-like) people, not surprisingly. This sample of Luo is almost identical to Luhya, I'm sure they are not all like that. (NB Pemba_700_BP seems to be something close to ancestral East Bantu.)

    More Nilo-Saharans from Sudan as well as Central Sudanic speakers would probably help, obviously more ancient DNA would be ideal (there is supposed to be at least one ancient Nubian genome out there going by conference abstracts from a few years ago, plus there is some very low-res uniparental data).

    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    Future studies will probably shoe these guys originate in the central sahara.
    Why the Central Sahara specifically? Not that it's crazy or anything but they seem located more southeast in the overall Nilo-Saharan mesh.

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