Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 120

Thread: Ethnic history of the Eastern Slavs

  1. #11
    Registered Users
    Posts
    335
    Sex
    Location
    America
    Ethnicity
    Pashtun
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z93
    mtDNA (M)
    U2c1

    United States of America Pashtunistan Afghanistan Greater Khorasan Azad Baluchistan Tajikistan
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Based on MDLP K16 Spreadsheet, it seems that West Ukrainians cluster with West Slavs, as well as 3 out of 4 Polish regions:



    Unfortunately there are no regional labels in the spreadsheet (they have been added to Oracle, but not yet to the spreadsheet).

    Only 1 out of 4 Polish references clusters with East Slavs.
    Where is the Pole that clusters with East Slavs from?

  2. #12
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,031
    Sex
    Location
    South Wales
    Ethnicity
    Mostly Welsh,+ flags
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a- Z283 - Y128147
    mtDNA (M)
    J2a1a1a

    Wales Scotland Ireland Cornwall United Kingdom
    From my basic understanding, I would say it’s because of the fact the Polish border was well inside Western Ukraine before ww2, before that of course the border was quite porous and populations would have moved freely. In Eastern Ukraine, I would suspect the opposite, in being more closer to Russia, which would make Geographical and historical sense with the Kievian Rus, not not mention all other historical peoples of the area.
    Gedmatch
    Kit Num: M129412, QA3736362
    23andme
    Hidden Content
    LivingDNA
    Hidden Content

  3. #13
    Registered Users
    Posts
    429
    Sex
    Location
    Haifa
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & Slavic
    Nationality
    Israel & Russia
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2a1b - S17250
    mtDNA (M)
    R0a4
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b5a

    Israel Israel Jerusalem Russian Federation Serbia Montenegro
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    From my basic understanding, I would say it’s because of the fact the Polish border was well inside Western Ukraine before ww2, before that of course the border was quite porous and populations would have moved freely. In Eastern Ukraine, I would suspect the opposite, in being more closer to Russia, which would make Geographical and historical sense with the Kievian Rus, not not mention all other historical peoples of the area.
    Pre-war Poland is a country that existed for about 20 years.
    Before that both Poland and Ukraine were parts of Russian Empire for about 100 years. People could migrate between Russia, Ukraine and Poland freely.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to artemv For This Useful Post:

     Coldmountains (11-30-2019)

  5. #14
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,031
    Sex
    Location
    South Wales
    Ethnicity
    Mostly Welsh,+ flags
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a- Z283 - Y128147
    mtDNA (M)
    J2a1a1a

    Wales Scotland Ireland Cornwall United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    Pre-war Poland is a country that existed for about 20 years.
    Before that both Poland and Ukraine were parts of Russian Empire for about 100 years. People could migrate between Russia, Ukraine and Poland freely.
    Sure, agreed, Poland as an identity has existed though for 1000 years, and in various forms in between.
    Gedmatch
    Kit Num: M129412, QA3736362
    23andme
    Hidden Content
    LivingDNA
    Hidden Content

  6. #15
    Registered Users
    Posts
    429
    Sex
    Location
    Haifa
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & Slavic
    Nationality
    Israel & Russia
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2a1b - S17250
    mtDNA (M)
    R0a4
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b5a

    Israel Israel Jerusalem Russian Federation Serbia Montenegro
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Sure, agreed, Poland as an identity has existed though for 1000 years, and in various forms in between.
    That wasn't my point. I wanted to say, that significant time out of those 1000 years Polish and Ukrainian people lived in the same state. It was Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth, later it was Russian Empire. So this two peoples were not just genetically common from the beginning, they could intermary as there was no physical boundary. Polish people lived on territory of modern Ukraine, and Ukrainians lived on the territory of modern Poland.
    The boundary between Polish and Ukrainian was mostly religious: Ukrainians are either Orthodox Christians or Uniates, while Polish are Catholic. But all that time there were people who changed their confessional affilation to intermary.

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to artemv For This Useful Post:

     Coldmountains (11-30-2019),  JoeyP37 (12-05-2019),  [email protected] (11-30-2019)

  8. #16
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    459
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    Proto-Slavic
    Nationality
    Rus
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a1

    Russian Federation
    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    Pre-war Poland is a country that existed for about 20 years.
    Before that both Poland and Ukraine were parts of Russian Empire for about 100 years. People could migrate between Russia, Ukraine and Poland freely.
    Both Poland and Russia and Ukraine are countries with a non-free population. Until the mid-19th century, most of the inhabitants of these countries (up to 90%) were not free peasants. In the 20th century, these peasants were very poor and could not migrate anywhere.

  9. #17
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    459
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    Proto-Slavic
    Nationality
    Rus
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a1

    Russian Federation
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    well Ukrainians are only a tiny bit closer to Poles here than to Southwest Russians. Also the Ukrainian average is including Ukrainians from different regions (West, Central, East). West Ukrainians would be definetly closer to Poles but East Ukrainians would be closer to Russians from Oryol or Kursk. My Russian wife is closer to some East Ukrainians than to many other Russians for example. Central Ukrainians are probably inbetween but a bit closer to Poles.
    If your wife is Russian, then she cannot be "closer to the Ukrainians." Most likely, Ukrainians are close to her and other Russians. Ukrainians are a mixture of Poles, Romanians and Russians.

  10. #18
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    459
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    Proto-Slavic
    Nationality
    Rus
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a1

    Russian Federation
    I will not tire of repeating - the southern Russians are the last original Slavs. Ukrainians are a mixture of Slavs and southern people; they cannot be the standard of Slavism. Northern Russians are moving away from other Slavs only because their genetics are contrasting Finnish. In fact, the northern Russians are more Slavic than any other Western European.

  11. #19
    Moderator
    Posts
    1,179
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-Z93
    mtDNA (M)
    H28 (UA/GAC)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    If your wife is Russian, then she cannot be "closer to the Ukrainians." Most likely, Ukrainians are close to her and other Russians. Ukrainians are a mixture of Poles, Romanians and Russians.
    well you are also closer to Ukrainians than to many Russians. Anyways Ukrainians, Russians or Belarusians are modern day ethnic groups and dont represent strict ethnic divisions before the modern age. There is nothinhg suprising about Russians clustering rather with Ukrainians or even East Poles than with other Russians and the other way around. Modern day borders are in no way genetic borders here and especially East Slavs were in history all the time mixing and interacting with each other because of the often shared language, religion and customs.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog)> R-L657> R-Y4 (Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun/Indo-Aryan)

    mtDNA: H28 (Globular Amphora, Bronze Age Latvia) > H28a (Ruthenian)

    mtDNA (Wife): H1b (found in Globular Amphora, EBA Poland, Bronze Age Latvia) > H1b5 (found in Viking-Age Gotland) > H1b5 (Russian)

  12. #20
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    459
    Sex
    Location
    Moscow
    Ethnicity
    Proto-Slavic
    Nationality
    Rus
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a1

    Russian Federation
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    well you are also closer to Ukrainians than to many Russians. Anyways Ukrainians, Russians or Belarusians are modern day ethnic groups and dont represent strict ethnic divisions before the modern age. There is nothinhg suprising about Russians clustering rather with Ukrainians or even East Poles than with other Russians and the other way around. Modern day borders are in no way genetic borders here and especially East Slavs were in history all the time mixing and interacting with each other because of the often shared language, religion and customs.
    you're wrong at the root of the question. Russians are the last Slavs. Some Poles and Ukrainians share the PСA with the Russians. But Russians never share PСA with Poles or Ukrainians. Do you understand this? Do you understand that not Russians have a common origin with Poles, are Poles sharing a common origin with Russians? Or are you a Eurocentrist and a liar? Do you understand that the central Russians are First-Slavs? Slavs arose on the Oka River. Polesie, Kiev, Prague are the secondary zones of resettlement. The first Slavs are Oka.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to AlexRus For This Useful Post:

     tipirneni (12-02-2019)

Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The origin of the Slavs
    By George in forum History (Ancient)
    Replies: 1542
    Last Post: 10-05-2018, 06:00 AM
  2. What did the Early Slavs look like?
    By Brent.B in forum History (Ancient)
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: 06-22-2018, 10:56 AM
  3. Two New Blogs on Eastern Black Sea (Eastern Pontus) Genetics
    By Theodore Gavras in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-03-2018, 01:57 AM
  4. Middle Eastern Archaeology and History News
    By History-of-Things in forum Archaeology (Prehistory)
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 04-22-2016, 09:15 PM
  5. Eastern, Southeastern, and Central Europe Archaeology and History News
    By History-of-Things in forum Archaeology (Prehistory)
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-27-2013, 03:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •