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Thread: Somalis and T-Y16897

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirix View Post
    It's important to contextualize population history when interpreting Genetic data . A lot of Borana or Oromo aren't really that close to Somalis in actuality, they have just assimilated a bunch of Somali people. Not all though but definitely the ones in the south and southeast they call Gabra or jabarti who are part of some Borana.

    A lot of people mistankingly infer a close genetic relationship with Oromo without controlling for the fact that many aren't actually Oromo in origin. Oromo's ethnically and linguistically are a lot more closer to Konso , Geleb, Gato,Gidole, Gawata , Warazi and Tsamai. All these ethnic groups are found in North-West Borana.

    Also Rendille aren't just linguistic cousins they are more or less a Somali group that broke off persumeably during the advent of Islam. Their language could be considered a dialect but they are more culturally differentiated & diverged from all other Somalis as a result of their seperation and contact with other communities thus its a seperate language. Af Maxa and Af Maay dialects are closer to eachother, than Rendille language are to them as a result.

    Some Rendille clans claim origin from Garre , they even use Garre Camel-brands. Whereas certain Rendille sections such as Dodakin have a language which is essentially the Tunni dialect of Somali. Rendille a pretty much a composite group, some sections for example the Arial are clearly of samburu Nilo-Saharan Origin.

    Somalis are actually more genetically distant from all other Ethiopian populations then they are to eachother. The genome-wide distance between the Portuguese and Slavs is smaller than between Boranas and Somalis. The genetic landscape of Ethiopia

    This is also why the Southern Ethiopia origin theory for Somalis is implausible. But the fact that T shows up in Afro Asiatic Cushitic speaking groups in the South lends more credence thats it's most likely introduced in pre-historic times perhaps from North Africa as the oldest sample dated from there at 3,000 BCE
    The oldest T ydna I saw in Yemen/somali lands was the history of the Lemba people.......they came from southern Syria and it was a migration of only men.............after arriving in yemen/somali, they all travelled to tanzania and then finally ended up in Northern South Africa.......they married local women
    The Lemba, wa-Remba, or Mwenye[1] are a Bantu ethnic group which is native to Zimbabwe and South Africa,

    One story is that they left the Levant circa 500BC

    50% are T
    More recently, Mendez et al. (2011) observed that a moderately high frequency of the studied Lemba samples carried Y-DNA Haplogroup T, which is also considered to be of Near Eastern origin.

    you can do your own research


    The Persian Gulf Area has mainly T1a3 group with some T1a1 as well ..............the T1a3 came south via southern Kazakhstan early BC times as well


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  2. #92
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    Tanzania & Mozambique isn't Yemeni or Somali land btw. And those are Bantu/Swahili groups.

  3. #93
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    What i included about T1 in a different thread some months ago: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....104#post706104

    Origins & History

    The higher frequency of T in East Africa would be due to a founder effect among Neolithic farmers or pastoralists from the Middle East.
    Haplogroup T emerged from haplogroup K, the ancestor of most of the Eurasian haplogroups (L, N, O, P, Q, R and T), some time between 45,000 and 35,000 years ago. The vast majority of modern members of haplogroup T belong to the T1a branch, which developed during the late glacial period, between 25,000 and 15,000 years ago, possibily in the vicinity of the Iranian Plateau.

    Although haplogroup T is more common today in East Africa than anywhere else, it almost certainly spread from the Fertile Crescent with the rise of agriculture. Indeed, the oldest subclades and the greatest diversity of T is found in the Middle East, especially around the Fertile Crescent. Lazaridis et al. (2016) However, considering that J1 peaks in Yemen and Sudan, while T1 is most common in southern Egypt, Eritrea and Somalia, the two may not necessarily have spread together. They might instead have spread as separate nomadic tribes of herders who colonised the Red Sea region during the Neolithic, a period than spanned over several millennia. Nevertheless both are found in all the Arabian peninsula, all the way from Egypt to Somalia,

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml

    The fact that it may have spread along the red sea during the neolithic, probably explains it's prevelance in Dir clans as they are generally the most Northernly clan that live along the red sea. It is most likely introduced via pastoralists from Southern Egypt/North Africa.
    Last edited by Mirix; 06-06-2021 at 02:45 AM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirix View Post
    What i included about T1 in a different thread some months ago: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....104#post706104

    Origins & History

    The higher frequency of T in East Africa would be due to a founder effect among Neolithic farmers or pastoralists from the Middle East.
    Haplogroup T emerged from haplogroup K, the ancestor of most of the Eurasian haplogroups (L, N, O, P, Q, R and T), some time between 45,000 and 35,000 years ago. The vast majority of modern members of haplogroup T belong to the T1a branch, which developed during the late glacial period, between 25,000 and 15,000 years ago, possibily in the vicinity of the Iranian Plateau.

    Although haplogroup T is more common today in East Africa than anywhere else, it almost certainly spread from the Fertile Crescent with the rise of agriculture. Indeed, the oldest subclades and the greatest diversity of T is found in the Middle East, especially around the Fertile Crescent. Lazaridis et al. (2016) However, considering that J1 peaks in Yemen and Sudan, while T1 is most common in southern Egypt, Eritrea and Somalia, the two may not necessarily have spread together. They might instead have spread as separate nomadic tribes of herders who colonised the Red Sea region during the Neolithic, a period than spanned over several millennia. Nevertheless both are found in all the Arabian peninsula, all the way from Egypt to Somalia,

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_T_Y-DNA.shtml

    The fact that it may have spread along the red sea during the neolithic, probably explains it's prevelance in Dir clans as they are generally the most Northernly clan that live along the red sea. It is most likely introduced via pastoralists from Southern Egypt/North Africa.
    I believe T began in central-asia between the Caspian sea and Aral sea ( in that area ) as all 4 branches of T are found there, as well as some being very old samples .............since their "cousins" haplogroup R1 , L, N and O also appear in the same area it makes the only logical place IMO


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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  6. #95
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    The new update is up. It seems everything in place, Dir ( Isaaq - Surra) split is 1650 years, isaaq is 900 years and habar Yunis is 550 years

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    You mean Isaaq Ts are 900 years old unless you excavate the tomb of Shiekh Isaxaaq no can claim who were the true Isaaq.Plus the Samarone,Bah Gob & Ciidigale don’t fall under the younger clade that the Habar Jeclo & Habar Yoonis sample fall under.Which means a CG is equally distant from a Samarone as he is from Habar Yoonis his supposed Garxajis sibling.
    Last edited by drobbah; 06-22-2021 at 09:33 PM.
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  10. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    You mean Isaaq Ts are 900 years old unless you excavate the tomb of Shiekh Isaxaaq no can claim who were the true Isaaq.Plus the Samarone,Bah Gob & Ciidigale don’t fall under the younger clade that the Habar Jeclo & Habar Yoonis sample fall under.Which means a CG is equally distant from a Samarone as he is from Habar Yoonis his supposed Garxajis sibling.
    Yes of Course Isaaq T haplogroup . my mistake, I thought both togdheer sample were both Habar Yunis

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    Quote Originally Posted by MujihaD View Post
    Yes of Course Isaaq T haplogroup . my mistake, I thought both togdheer sample were both Habar Yunis
    The tmrca is similar to the tmrca of Sacad-Cisse Muuse, so this Northern T lineage is quite young.I wonder what made these Isaaqs Ts ancestors to forget their Dir ancestry and their close relation with the Samarone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    You mean Isaaq Ts are 900 years old unless you excavate the tomb of Shiekh Isaxaaq no can claim who were the true Isaaq.Plus the Samarone,Bah Gob & Ciidigale don’t fall under the younger clade that the Habar Jeclo & Habar Yoonis sample fall under.Which means a CG is equally distant from a Samarone as he is from Habar Yoonis his supposed Garxajis sibling.
    Wait, are you saying HY Ts are more related to HJ Ts than CGs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol01 View Post
    Wait, are you saying HY Ts are more related to HJ Ts than CGs?
    Thought this was the E-V32 thread for some reason… but yes both Toghdheer samples one HJ & HY share a recent tmrca on yfull to the exclusion of the Ciidigale
    Last edited by drobbah; 06-25-2021 at 07:37 PM.
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