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Thread: PCA of Mycenaeans, modern Greek-speakers and some relevant populations

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    PCA of Mycenaeans, modern Greek-speakers and some relevant populations

    I have always been curious about the genetic make up of Greek-speaking Anatolian citizens of the Eastern Roman Empire, whom the Turks called Rum. We still have no Anatolian sample from the Eastern Roman period, but we do have modern Anatolian Greek samples. To see how these Anatolian Greeks plot, I made a PCA using 95 samples from 10 populations.

    Albanian (n=5)
    Armenian (n=20)
    Greek_Central_Anatolia (n=3)
    Greek_Crete (n=20)
    Greek_Cyprus (n=9)
    Greek_Peloponnese (n=9)
    Greek_Pontus (n=7)
    Laz (n=12)
    Mycenaean (n=4)
    Nusayri (Arab Alawites from Turkey, n=6)

    https://abload.de/img/moderngreek68f2f.png
    Last edited by Alkaevli; 10-20-2018 at 02:37 PM.

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    Update: Greek_Rhodes (n=1) has been added to the PCA


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    Why not include Agean Turkish samples?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkaevli View Post
    Update: Greek_Rhodes (n=1) has been added to the PCA

    Thanks for posting this - I've replied before the site disappeared, so my post was gone - but I asked where are the Nusayri samples from? Are they from Adana region, or from Antakaya? And are they of "Arab" ancestry or Turks?
    Check out my Hidden Content
    My Y-DNA: Q-M242 -> Q-L232 -> Q-L275 -> Q-M378 -> Q-Y2016 -> Q-L245 -> Q-FGC1904 -> Q-Y2209 -> Q-Y2225 -> Q-Y2197 -> Q-Y2750 -> Q-YP1004 -> Q-YP3924;
    My mtDNA: K1a1b1a;

    My dad's mtDNA: K2a2a;

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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Why not include Agean Turkish samples?
    Because contrary to popular belief, native Turks of that region are not really close to any modern Greek speaking population. They have higher levels of Central Asian ancestry than the Turkish average.


    Nonetheless, I've added more than 30 Turkish individuals from Turkey's 7 westernmost provinces to the PCA.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Thanks for posting this - I've replied before the site disappeared, so my post was gone - but I asked where are the Nusayri samples from? Are they from Adana region, or from Antakaya? And are they of "Arab" ancestry or Turks?
    We have 6 Nusayri samples in total; 4 from Hatay, 1 from Adana, 1 from Mersin. Yes, they are of Arab ancestry, they originally speak an Arabic dialect and are known as "Arap Alevileri" in Turkey. They form a cluster between modern Levantines and Cappadocian Greeks on PCA.
    Last edited by Alkaevli; 11-04-2018 at 05:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkaevli View Post
    We have 6 Nusayri samples in total; 4 from Hatay, 1 from Adana, 1 from Mersin. Yes, they are of Arab ancestry, they originally speak an Arabic dialect and are known as "Arap Alevileri" in Turkey. But if you ask me, they seem to be pretty native, they form a cluster between modern Levantines and Cappadocian Greeks on PCA.
    If you could plot some Lebanese (Druze, Christian) just for reference, so we could see how those Nusayri samples plot compare to other Levantines, that would be incredibly helpful.

    Also, do you find Turks from Balikesir and Aydin to plot closer to Cretans? In Global25, they seem to plot closer to Greeks (but only slightly, they still cluster much closer to other Anatolian Turks).
    Check out my Hidden Content
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    My mtDNA: K1a1b1a;

    My dad's mtDNA: K2a2a;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    If you could plot some Lebanese (Druze, Christian) just for reference, so we could see how those Nusayri samples plot compare to other Levantines, that would be incredibly helpful.
    Sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Also, do you find Turks from Balikesir and Aydin to plot closer to Cretans? In Global25, they seem to plot closer to Greeks (but only slightly, they still cluster much closer to other Anatolian Turks).
    This is how they plot when central Anatolian Turks are included, they show a slight shift towards mainland and Cretans Greeks.
     



    Here are the provincial averages:

    Eurogenes K13: https://turkishdna.blogspot.com/2018...talamalar.html
    MDLP K23b: https://turkishdna.blogspot.com/2018...talamalar.html
    Dodecad K12b: https://turkishdna.blogspot.com/2018...talamalar.html
    PuntDNAL K12: https://turkishdna.blogspot.com/2018...talamalar.html
    Last edited by Alkaevli; 11-04-2018 at 05:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkaevli View Post
    Because contrary to popular belief, native Turks of that region are not really close to any modern Greek speaking population. They have higher levels of Central Asian ancestry than the Turkish average.
    My wife and many of her agean Turkish matches must be part alien then Of course agean Turks carry allot of "common ancient agean ancestry" with Greeks (modern and ancient), the level of east Asian % dosnt affect the shared agean ancestry..

    Also, are you using PuntDNAL K12 for the PCA? As that would explain allot..
    Last edited by evon; 11-04-2018 at 06:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    My wife and many of her agean Turkish matches must be part alien then Of course agean Turks carry allot of "common ancient agean ancestry" with Greeks (modern and ancient), the level of east Asian % dosnt affect the shared agean ancestry..
    It seems you misunderstood me. I did not say there is no shared ancestry between Greeks and Turks, of course there is. You asked me why I did not include Aegean Turkish samples, and I said they were not close enough to any modern Greek-speaking population to be included on the PCA.

    Quote Originally Posted by evon View Post
    Also, are you using PuntDNAL K12 for the PCA? As that would explain allot..
    No, I'm not. Actually, I tried a lot of calculators before posting this one, all of them gave similar results. Populations that are close to each other will always appear as such, no matter what calculator is used. Cretans and other Aegean islanders don't really seem close to the Greek mainland, let alone the Turkish mainland. They form a seperate cluster of their own.
    Last edited by Alkaevli; 11-04-2018 at 07:42 PM.

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