Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 65

Thread: PCA of Mycenaeans, modern Greek-speakers and some relevant populations

  1. #11
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,549
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA
    R1a1a
    mtDNA
    H

    United States of America
    No Sicilians or south Italians But given what we know, they would be right near Mycenaeans and Cretans.

    Mycenaeans seem closer to, but not identical to, Aegean islanders. Even the Peloponnese, with the exception of some isolated parts of Mani in the south, are definitely Balkanic.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sikeliot For This Useful Post:

     Erikl86 (11-05-2018),  Power77 (12-07-2018)

  3. #12
    Registered Users
    Posts
    190
    Sex

    Thanks for these interesting plots Alkaevli!

    Can you please provide us with a Eurogenes K36 similarity map of these Alwaites? Also do you have any Syrian Alawite results? I would imagine the coastal Syrian Alawites (Latakia) would be identical to Hatay, (and perhaps Adana and Mersin, which are also coastal) but inland Alawites may shift further to the Levant proper.

    Also how do Turkish Alevi (completely separate, of course, from Alawites) plot? Do all Alevi have the same Turkic admixture as their Sunni Turkish neighbours, or do some cluster closely to say Cappadocian Greeks?

    And btw, do we know if we have separate Greek-speaking and Turkish-speaking (i.e. what Greeks call Karamanlides) Cappadocian results? It would be interesting to see if they are nearly identical. The same applies to Pontic Greeks, between those speaking 'Rumja'/'Romeika' and those speaking Turkish.
    Last edited by Andrewid; 11-05-2018 at 04:17 PM.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Andrewid For This Useful Post:

     Erikl86 (11-05-2018),  Power77 (12-07-2018)

  5. #13
    Registered Users
    Posts
    133
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Y-DNA
    N-P43

    Turkey Great Seljuk Empire
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewid View Post
    Thanks for these interesting plots Alkaevli!

    Can you please provide us with a Eurogenes K36 similarity map of these Alwaites?
    I don't know how to do that. Here are their Eurogenes K36 results, maybe someone else can do that.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewid View Post
    Also do you have any Syrian Alawite results? I would imagine the coastal Syrian Alawites (Latakia) would be identical to Hatay, (and perhaps Adana and Mersin, which are also coastal) but inland Alawites may shift further to the Levant proper.
    No, I don't have any Syrian Alawite sample.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewid View Post
    And btw, do we know if we have separate Greek-speaking and Turkish-speaking (i.e. what Greeks call Karamanlides) Cappadocian results? It would be interesting to see if they are nearly identical. The same applies to Pontic Greeks, between those speaking 'Rumja'/'Romeika' and those speaking Turkish.
    I have the results of 5 Cappadocian individuals, 4 of them descend fully from the Greek-speaking Cappadocian community, the 5th individual is fully Cappadocian too but I'm not sure if he/she is partly or fully Karamanlı. I wouldn't be surprised if Turkish-speaking Karamanlides lack the Turkic admixture and are similar to Greek-speaking Cappadocians.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewid View Post
    Also how do Turkish Alevi (completely separate, of course, from Alawites) plot? Do all Alevi have the same Turkic admixture as their Sunni Turkish neighbours, or do some cluster closely to say Cappadocian Greeks?
    Alevi Turks do not differ genetically from their Sunni Turkish neighbours, which was expected. Alevi Turks in west Anatolia show a shift towards central Anatolian Turks though. You can see a few Alevi Turkish results from various parts of the country via the link below. The Alevi Turkish individual from Trabzon (shown on that page) has Central Asian ancestry, unlike most parts of Trabzon where Central Asian ancestry is negligible, so Trabzon is an exception.

    Link: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....r-other-places

    I chose east-central Anatolia for comparison because that is where a large part of Alevi Turkish population is concentrated:

    Sunni Turks from Sivas, east-central Anatolia (n=15)
    Sunni Turks from Yozgat, east-central Anatolia (n=9)
    Alevi Turks from Sivas, east-central Anatolia (n=5)
    Alevi Turks from Yozgat, east-central Anatolia (n=3)
    Cappadocian Greeks (n=5)
    Nusayri/Alawites (n=6)
    Armenians (n=20)
    Alevi Zazas (n=11)
    Alevi Kurds (n=3)

    Full size: https://abload.de/img/alecopyovf2d.png


    The Turkish individuals shown on the chart are from these two east-central Anatolian provinces (Yozgat and Sivas):
    Last edited by Alkaevli; 11-05-2018 at 07:56 PM.

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Alkaevli For This Useful Post:

     Andrewid (11-05-2018),  Erikl86 (11-05-2018),  Patarames (12-07-2018),  Power77 (12-07-2018)

  7. #14
    Registered Users
    Posts
    133
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Y-DNA
    N-P43

    Turkey Great Seljuk Empire
    Oracle results of the Cappadocian Greek average. I'm using a handmade software based on least squares method. In Turkish, the percent sign comes after the number, so don't mind it.

    Code:
    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Cappadocia @ 0
    2 Greek_Cyprus @ 8,290977
    3 Turk_Cyprus @ 8,889629
    4 Arab_Alawite_Turkey @ 9,490648
    5 Armenian_West @ 9,575531
    6 Greek_Pontus @ 10,646431
    7 Greek_Crete @ 12,197012
    8 Druze @ 13,614661
    9 Turk_Anatolia @ 14,458783
    10 Assyrian @ 14,727688
    11 Hattian_Anatolia_BA @ 14,800429
    12 Lebanese @ 14,804901
    13 Sephardic_Jew @ 15,154296
    14 Turk_Ahiska @ 15,207886
    15 Laz @ 15,251872
    16 Azerbaijani_Turkey @ 15,684327
    17 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 16,793484
    18 Zaza @ 16,919291
    19 Azerbaijani @ 17,087572
    20 Turkmen_Iraq @ 17,678954
    
    Using 2 population approximation:
    1 %47 Greek_Crete + %53 Greek_Pontus @ 1,972131
    2 %63 Greek_Pontus + %37 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2,019197
    3 %64 Greek_Pontus + %36 Sicilian @ 2,552312
    4 %54 Laz + %46 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2,891796
    5 %56 Greek_Crete + %44 Laz @ 2,921392
    6 %28 C_Italian + %72 Greek_Pontus @ 3,09702
    7 %38 Ashkenazi_Jew + %62 Greek_Pontus @ 3,142389
    8 %39 Georgian_Adjara + %61 Greek_Crete @ 3,367717
    9 %59 Greek_Pontus + %41 Sephardic_Jew @ 3,388626
    10 %84 Greek_Pontus + %16 Murcia @ 3,405824
    11 %55 Laz + %45 Sicilian @ 3,409281
    12 %17 Galicia + %83 Greek_Pontus @ 3,423158
    13 %75 Greek_Pontus + %25 Tuscan @ 3,442016
    14 %80 Greek_Pontus + %20 North_Italian @ 3,45893
    15 %50 Laz + %50 Sephardic_Jew @ 3,495207
    16 %27 Abkhazian + %73 Greek_Cyprus @ 3,503728
    17 %67 Armenian_West + %33 Sicilian @ 3,526417
    18 %15 Castilla_La_Mancha + %85 Greek_Pontus @ 3,563454
    19 %66 Armenian_West + %34 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 3,56708
    20 %65 Armenian_West + %35 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 3,598192
    
    Using 3 population approximation:
    1 %71 Greek_Pontus + %24 Tuscan + %5 Saudis @ 1,03291
    2 %67 Greek_Pontus + %20 North_Italian + %13 Samaritians @ 1,048087
    3 %58 Greek_Pontus + %19 North_Italian + %23 Druze @ 1,052595
    4 %68 Greek_Pontus + %25 Tuscan + %7 Yemen_Jews @ 1,078971
    5 %73 Greek_Pontus + %20 North_Italian + %7 Yemen_Jews @ 1,082888
    6 %68 Greek_Pontus + %24 Tuscan + %8 Bedouin @ 1,16025
    7 %53 Greek_Pontus + %24 Tuscan + %23 Druze @ 1,188987
    8 %56 Greek_Pontus + %20 N_Italian + %24 Druze @ 1,19588
    9 %27 C_Italian + %69 Greek_Pontus + %4 Saudis @ 1,204508
    10 %76 Greek_Pontus + %19 North_Italian + %5 Saudis @ 1,234162
    11 %62 Greek_Pontus + %35 S_Italian_Sicilian + %3 Saudis @ 1,250804
    12 %66 Greek_Pontus + %20 N_Italian + %14 Samaritians @ 1,291321
    13 %62 Greek_Pontus + %25 Tuscan + %13 Samaritians @ 1,30676
    14 %63 Greek_Pontus + %23 Tuscan + %14 Syrians @ 1,309688
    15 %27 C_Italian + %67 Greek_Pontus + %6 Yemen_Jews @ 1,318514
    16 %73 Greek_Pontus + %19 North_Italian + %8 Bedouin @ 1,340678
    17 %58 Greek_Pontus + %34 S_Italian_Sicilian + %8 Syrians @ 1,347162
    18 %15 Cataluna + %71 Greek_Pontus + %14 Samaritians @ 1,35065
    19 %15 Cantabria + %71 Greek_Pontus + %14 Samaritians @ 1,381689
    20 %51 Greek_Pontus + %37 S_Italian_Sicilian + %12 Assyrian @ 1,382103

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Alkaevli For This Useful Post:

     Andrewid (11-05-2018),  Erikl86 (11-05-2018),  Power77 (12-07-2018),  Seabass (11-15-2018)

  9. #15
    Registered Users
    Posts
    133
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Y-DNA
    N-P43

    Turkey Great Seljuk Empire
    And here is the Pontic Greek average (Turk_Ahiska stands for Meskhetian Turks):

    Code:
    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Pontus @ 0
    2 Laz @ 5,032127
    3 Armenian_West @ 7,461226
    4 Turk_Ahiska @ 8,297512
    5 Georgian_Adjara @ 8,465134
    6 Greek_Cappadocia @ 10,646431
    7 Georgian_Imereti @ 11,455169
    8 Assyrian @ 12,14944
    9 Georgian_Gurian @ 12,876642
    10 Kura_Araxes_BA @ 13,302173
    11 Georgian_Mingrelian @ 13,817684
    12 Abkhazian @ 14,34426
    13 Druze @ 14,410215
    14 Arab_Alawite_Turkey @ 15,198122
    15 Georgian_Svan @ 15,729323
    16 Greek_Cyprus @ 16,729334
    17 Azerbaijani_Turkey @ 16,954463
    18 Iran_Iron_Age @ 17,689395
    19 Turk_Cyprus @ 17,870988
    20 Talysh_Azerbaijan @ 18,434869
    
    Using 2 population approximation:
    1 %23 Greek_Cyprus + %77 Laz @ 1,060061
    2 %84 Laz + %16 Sephardic_Jew @ 1,579851
    3 %31 Greek_Cappadocia + %69 Laz @ 1,688926
    4 %18 Hattian_Anatolia_BA + %82 Laz @ 1,868572
    5 %79 Laz + %21 Turk_Cyprus @ 1,925603
    6 %67 Georgian_Adjara + %33 Greek_Cyprus @ 2,16692
    7 %15 Ashkenazi_Jew + %85 Laz @ 2,18979
    8 %23 Arab_Alawite_Turkey + %77 Laz @ 2,266422
    9 %86 Laz + %14 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2,269522
    10 %86 Laz + %14 Sicilian @ 2,293292
    11 %17 Greek_Crete + %83 Laz @ 2,376379
    12 %56 Georgian_Adjara + %44 Greek_Cappadocia @ 2,461243
    13 %94 Laz + %6 Sardinian @ 2,740281
    14 %60 Georgian_Imereti + %40 Greek_Cyprus @ 2,768593
    15 %23 Druze + %77 Laz @ 2,797573
    16 %10 C_Italian + %90 Laz @ 2,901221
    17 %76 Georgian_Adjara + %24 Sephardic_Jew @ 2,908074
    18 %82 Laz + %18 Lebanese @ 3,045777
    19 %91 Laz + %9 Tuscan @ 3,06505
    20 %94 Laz + %6 Murcia @ 3,113356
    
    
    Using 3 population approximation:
    1 %85 Laz + %10 Samaritians + %5 Sardinian @ 0,725023
    2 %85 Laz + %5 Sardinian + %10 Samaritians @ 0,725023
    3 %62 Georgian_Imereti + %25 Hattian_Anatolia_BA + %13 Samaritians @ 0,865009
    4 %15 Hattian_Anatolia_BA + %82 Laz + %3 Yemen_Jews @ 0,883406
    5 %82 Laz + %3 Yemen_Jews + %15 Hattian_Anatolia_BA @ 0,883406
    6 %80 Laz + %4 Sardinian + %16 Druze @ 0,886149
    7 %16 Druze + %80 Laz + %4 Sardinian @ 0,886149
    8 %17 Greek_Cyprus + %78 Laz + %5 Hattian_Anatolia_BA @ 0,904382
    9 %5 Hattian_Anatolia_BA + %78 Laz + %17 Greek_Cyprus @ 0,904382
    10 %14 Hattian_Anatolia_BA + %79 Laz + %7 Samaritians @ 0,931084
    11 %58 Georgian_Imereti + %21 Hattian_Anatolia_BA + %21 Druze @ 0,934401
    12 %13 Hattian_Anatolia_BA + %76 Laz + %11 Druze @ 0,971599
    13 %4 Bedouin + %82 Laz + %14 Hattian_Anatolia_BA @ 0,97185
    14 %14 Hattian_Anatolia_BA + %82 Laz + %4 Bedouin @ 0,97185
    15 %16 Hattian_Anatolia_BA + %82 Laz + %2 Saudis @ 1,004819
    16 %14 Hattian_Anatolia_BA + %80 Laz + %6 Palestinian @ 1,028894
    17 %80 Laz + %6 Palestinian + %14 Hattian_Anatolia_BA @ 1,028894
    18 %22 Greek_Cyprus + %77 Laz + %1 Samaritians @ 1,049624
    19 %90 Laz + %5 Sardinian + %5 Yemen_Jews @ 1,050493
    20 %78 Laz + %9 Lebanese + %13 Hattian_Anatolia_BA @ 1,050862

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Alkaevli For This Useful Post:

     Andrewid (11-05-2018),  Erikl86 (11-05-2018),  Power77 (12-07-2018)

  11. #16
    Gold Member Class
    Posts
    1,380
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish (Ashkenazi)
    Y-DNA
    Q-YP3924 (Q-M378)
    mtDNA
    K1a1b1a

    Israel
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkaevli View Post
    Oracle results of the Cappadocian Greek average. I'm using a handmade software based on least squares method. In Turkish, the percent sign comes after the number, so don't mind it.

    Code:
    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Cappadocia @ 0
    2 Greek_Cyprus @ 8,290977
    3 Turk_Cyprus @ 8,889629
    4 Arab_Alawite_Turkey @ 9,490648
    5 Armenian_West @ 9,575531
    6 Greek_Pontus @ 10,646431
    7 Greek_Crete @ 12,197012
    8 Druze @ 13,614661
    9 Turk_Anatolia @ 14,458783
    10 Assyrian @ 14,727688
    11 Hattian_Anatolia_BA @ 14,800429
    12 Lebanese @ 14,804901
    13 Sephardic_Jew @ 15,154296
    14 Turk_Ahiska @ 15,207886
    15 Laz @ 15,251872
    16 Azerbaijani_Turkey @ 15,684327
    17 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 16,793484
    18 Zaza @ 16,919291
    19 Azerbaijani @ 17,087572
    20 Turkmen_Iraq @ 17,678954
    
    Using 2 population approximation:
    1 %47 Greek_Crete + %53 Greek_Pontus @ 1,972131
    2 %63 Greek_Pontus + %37 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2,019197
    3 %64 Greek_Pontus + %36 Sicilian @ 2,552312
    4 %54 Laz + %46 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2,891796
    5 %56 Greek_Crete + %44 Laz @ 2,921392
    6 %28 C_Italian + %72 Greek_Pontus @ 3,09702
    7 %38 Ashkenazi_Jew + %62 Greek_Pontus @ 3,142389
    8 %39 Georgian_Adjara + %61 Greek_Crete @ 3,367717
    9 %59 Greek_Pontus + %41 Sephardic_Jew @ 3,388626
    10 %84 Greek_Pontus + %16 Murcia @ 3,405824
    11 %55 Laz + %45 Sicilian @ 3,409281
    12 %17 Galicia + %83 Greek_Pontus @ 3,423158
    13 %75 Greek_Pontus + %25 Tuscan @ 3,442016
    14 %80 Greek_Pontus + %20 North_Italian @ 3,45893
    15 %50 Laz + %50 Sephardic_Jew @ 3,495207
    16 %27 Abkhazian + %73 Greek_Cyprus @ 3,503728
    17 %67 Armenian_West + %33 Sicilian @ 3,526417
    18 %15 Castilla_La_Mancha + %85 Greek_Pontus @ 3,563454
    19 %66 Armenian_West + %34 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 3,56708
    20 %65 Armenian_West + %35 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 3,598192
    
    Using 3 population approximation:
    1 %71 Greek_Pontus + %24 Tuscan + %5 Saudis @ 1,03291
    2 %67 Greek_Pontus + %20 North_Italian + %13 Samaritians @ 1,048087
    3 %58 Greek_Pontus + %19 North_Italian + %23 Druze @ 1,052595
    4 %68 Greek_Pontus + %25 Tuscan + %7 Yemen_Jews @ 1,078971
    5 %73 Greek_Pontus + %20 North_Italian + %7 Yemen_Jews @ 1,082888
    6 %68 Greek_Pontus + %24 Tuscan + %8 Bedouin @ 1,16025
    7 %53 Greek_Pontus + %24 Tuscan + %23 Druze @ 1,188987
    8 %56 Greek_Pontus + %20 N_Italian + %24 Druze @ 1,19588
    9 %27 C_Italian + %69 Greek_Pontus + %4 Saudis @ 1,204508
    10 %76 Greek_Pontus + %19 North_Italian + %5 Saudis @ 1,234162
    11 %62 Greek_Pontus + %35 S_Italian_Sicilian + %3 Saudis @ 1,250804
    12 %66 Greek_Pontus + %20 N_Italian + %14 Samaritians @ 1,291321
    13 %62 Greek_Pontus + %25 Tuscan + %13 Samaritians @ 1,30676
    14 %63 Greek_Pontus + %23 Tuscan + %14 Syrians @ 1,309688
    15 %27 C_Italian + %67 Greek_Pontus + %6 Yemen_Jews @ 1,318514
    16 %73 Greek_Pontus + %19 North_Italian + %8 Bedouin @ 1,340678
    17 %58 Greek_Pontus + %34 S_Italian_Sicilian + %8 Syrians @ 1,347162
    18 %15 Cataluna + %71 Greek_Pontus + %14 Samaritians @ 1,35065
    19 %15 Cantabria + %71 Greek_Pontus + %14 Samaritians @ 1,381689
    20 %51 Greek_Pontus + %37 S_Italian_Sicilian + %12 Assyrian @ 1,382103
    This is quite amazing ! Which calculator are you using ? Gedrosia K12?

    First "pure" Cappadocian Greeks I've seen, as Andrew and I assumed in PMs exchanges, their closest population are Cypriots, which shows the cline between Anatolian Greeks and Cypriots. They also seem pretty close to Antioch (Hatay) Alawites, the only Levantines currently showing affinity towards Anatolian Greeks.
    Check out my Hidden Content
    My Y-DNA: Q-M242 -> Q-L232 -> Q-L275 -> Q-M378 -> Q-Y2016 -> Q-L245 -> Q-FGC1904 -> Q-Y2209 -> Q-Y2225 -> Q-Y2197 -> Q-Y2750 -> Q-YP1004 -> Q-YP3924;
    My mtDNA: K1a1b1a;

    My dad's mtDNA: K2a2a;

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Erikl86 For This Useful Post:

     Andrewid (11-05-2018),  Power77 (12-07-2018)

  13. #17
    Registered Users
    Posts
    200
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    J2a-M319

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkaevli View Post
    Oracle results of the Cappadocian Greek average. I'm using a handmade software based on least squares method. In Turkish, the percent sign comes after the number, so don't mind it.

    Code:
    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Cappadocia @ 0
    2 Greek_Cyprus @ 8,290977
    3 Turk_Cyprus @ 8,889629
    4 Arab_Alawite_Turkey @ 9,490648
    5 Armenian_West @ 9,575531
    6 Greek_Pontus @ 10,646431
    7 Greek_Crete @ 12,197012
    8 Druze @ 13,614661
    9 Turk_Anatolia @ 14,458783
    10 Assyrian @ 14,727688
    11 Hattian_Anatolia_BA @ 14,800429
    12 Lebanese @ 14,804901
    13 Sephardic_Jew @ 15,154296
    14 Turk_Ahiska @ 15,207886
    15 Laz @ 15,251872
    16 Azerbaijani_Turkey @ 15,684327
    17 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 16,793484
    18 Zaza @ 16,919291
    19 Azerbaijani @ 17,087572
    20 Turkmen_Iraq @ 17,678954
    
    Using 2 population approximation:
    1 %47 Greek_Crete + %53 Greek_Pontus @ 1,972131
    2 %63 Greek_Pontus + %37 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2,019197
    3 %64 Greek_Pontus + %36 Sicilian @ 2,552312
    4 %54 Laz + %46 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 2,891796
    5 %56 Greek_Crete + %44 Laz @ 2,921392
    6 %28 C_Italian + %72 Greek_Pontus @ 3,09702
    7 %38 Ashkenazi_Jew + %62 Greek_Pontus @ 3,142389
    8 %39 Georgian_Adjara + %61 Greek_Crete @ 3,367717
    9 %59 Greek_Pontus + %41 Sephardic_Jew @ 3,388626
    10 %84 Greek_Pontus + %16 Murcia @ 3,405824
    11 %55 Laz + %45 Sicilian @ 3,409281
    12 %17 Galicia + %83 Greek_Pontus @ 3,423158
    13 %75 Greek_Pontus + %25 Tuscan @ 3,442016
    14 %80 Greek_Pontus + %20 North_Italian @ 3,45893
    15 %50 Laz + %50 Sephardic_Jew @ 3,495207
    16 %27 Abkhazian + %73 Greek_Cyprus @ 3,503728
    17 %67 Armenian_West + %33 Sicilian @ 3,526417
    18 %15 Castilla_La_Mancha + %85 Greek_Pontus @ 3,563454
    19 %66 Armenian_West + %34 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 3,56708
    20 %65 Armenian_West + %35 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 3,598192
    
    Using 3 population approximation:
    1 %71 Greek_Pontus + %24 Tuscan + %5 Saudis @ 1,03291
    2 %67 Greek_Pontus + %20 North_Italian + %13 Samaritians @ 1,048087
    3 %58 Greek_Pontus + %19 North_Italian + %23 Druze @ 1,052595
    4 %68 Greek_Pontus + %25 Tuscan + %7 Yemen_Jews @ 1,078971
    5 %73 Greek_Pontus + %20 North_Italian + %7 Yemen_Jews @ 1,082888
    6 %68 Greek_Pontus + %24 Tuscan + %8 Bedouin @ 1,16025
    7 %53 Greek_Pontus + %24 Tuscan + %23 Druze @ 1,188987
    8 %56 Greek_Pontus + %20 N_Italian + %24 Druze @ 1,19588
    9 %27 C_Italian + %69 Greek_Pontus + %4 Saudis @ 1,204508
    10 %76 Greek_Pontus + %19 North_Italian + %5 Saudis @ 1,234162
    11 %62 Greek_Pontus + %35 S_Italian_Sicilian + %3 Saudis @ 1,250804
    12 %66 Greek_Pontus + %20 N_Italian + %14 Samaritians @ 1,291321
    13 %62 Greek_Pontus + %25 Tuscan + %13 Samaritians @ 1,30676
    14 %63 Greek_Pontus + %23 Tuscan + %14 Syrians @ 1,309688
    15 %27 C_Italian + %67 Greek_Pontus + %6 Yemen_Jews @ 1,318514
    16 %73 Greek_Pontus + %19 North_Italian + %8 Bedouin @ 1,340678
    17 %58 Greek_Pontus + %34 S_Italian_Sicilian + %8 Syrians @ 1,347162
    18 %15 Cataluna + %71 Greek_Pontus + %14 Samaritians @ 1,35065
    19 %15 Cantabria + %71 Greek_Pontus + %14 Samaritians @ 1,381689
    20 %51 Greek_Pontus + %37 S_Italian_Sicilian + %12 Assyrian @ 1,382103
    I obtained similar results

    [1] "distance%=1.6438 / distance=0.016438"

    Greek_Cappadocia

    Greek_Pontus (N=4) 61.8
    Greek_Crete (N=8) 38.2

  14. #18
    Registered Users
    Posts
    190
    Sex

    I've posted this on another thread but it's highly relevant here.

    I've managed to get some Greek Cappadocian kits from member and moderator Onur Dincer. Thanks Onur!

    I made some K36 Eurogene maps by taking an average of the 4 samples. It's a very small sample, granted. However, these results are very hard to come by as many of the community have now passed away and their descendants intermarrying. I found the results very interesting and show their closest connection to be the historic Pontus region in northeast Turkey. It is thought that this area has little Turkic admixture, compared to other Anatolian areas, which would increase the match to Cappadocian Greeks. In addition, they both share a significant Caucasus/Armenian admixture, which geographically and historically, is what you would expect.

    However, the connection of the Cappadocians to the Mediterranean continuum is quite clear. Some individual results were actually closer to the Aegean than to northeast Turkey. The closest match is to the Dodecanese and then to Cyprus. I would suggest that there is a significant common substrate with the Mediterranean continuum. The Cappadocians also provide a genetic bridge to eastern Anatolia, and extending northwards to the Black Sea coast, where 'Greek' populations were concentrated. It is also clear that Mediterranean populations have less Armenian/Caucasus admixture, compared to Cappadocians.

     


     


    Edit.
    A small historical note. The Cappadocian Greek villages were to be found in an area bounded by Nevsehir and Kayseri in the north and Nigde and Pharasa in the south. Some spoke a Greek Cappadocian dialect, whilst some were Turkish-speakers. In 1923, they were subject to the population exchange agreed between Greece and Turkey and the community was transported en masse to Greece. A small splinter group managed to stay behind by arguing that they were not 'Greek' according to the treaty of exchange. This was the small Turkish-speaking 'Karamanli' community, headed by Papa Eftim, who set up the rival Turkish Orthodox church in 1922. To this day, they maintain a church in Istanbul and have always challenged the authority of the Greek Patriarchate in the city.

    Here are their villages at the beginning of the 20th century:

     

  15. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Andrewid For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (11-13-2018),  Erikl86 (11-13-2018),  Power77 (12-07-2018),  Seabass (11-15-2018)

  16. #19
    Gold Member Class
    Posts
    1,380
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish (Ashkenazi)
    Y-DNA
    Q-YP3924 (Q-M378)
    mtDNA
    K1a1b1a

    Israel
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewid View Post
    I've posted this on another thread but it's highly relevant here.

    I've managed to get some Greek Cappadocian kits from member and moderator Onur Dincer. Thanks Onur!

    I made some K36 Eurogene maps by taking an average of the 4 samples. It's a very small sample, granted. However, these results are very hard to come by as many of the community have now passed away and their descendants intermarrying. I found the results very interesting and show their closest connection to be the historic Pontus region in northeast Turkey. It is thought that this area has little Turkic admixture, compared to other Anatolian areas, which would increase the match to Cappadocian Greeks. In addition, they both share a significant Caucasus/Armenian admixture, which geographically and historically, is what you would expect.

    However, the connection of the Cappadocians to the Mediterranean continuum is quite clear. Some individual results were actually closer to the Aegean than to northeast Turkey. The closest match is to the Dodecanese and then to Cyprus. I would suggest that there is a significant common substrate with the Mediterranean continuum. The Cappadocians also provide a genetic bridge to eastern Anatolia, and extending northwards to the Black Sea coast, where 'Greek' populations were concentrated. It is also clear that Mediterranean populations have less Armenian/Caucasus admixture, compared to Cappadocians.

     


     


    Edit.
    A small historical note. The Cappadocian Greek villages were to be found in an area bounded by Nevsehir and Kayseri in the north and Nigde and Pharasa in the south. Some spoke a Greek Cappadocian dialect, whilst some were Turkish-speakers. In 1923, they were subject to the population exchange agreed between Greece and Turkey and the community was transported en masse to Greece. A small splinter group managed to stay behind by arguing that they were not 'Greek' according to the treaty of exchange. This was the small Turkish-speaking 'Karamanli' community, headed by Papa Eftim, who set up the rival Turkish Orthodox church in 1922. To this day, they maintain a church in Istanbul and have always challenged the authority of the Greek Patriarchate in the city.

    Here are their villages at the beginning of the 20th century:

     
    I have to wonder - how big was the Cappadocian Greek population? Was it in anyway comparable to the West Anatolian Greek population numbers? If so - is it known where most of them have been settled in Greece? Or chose to settle? It might be worth comparing results from specific locations where most of them settled and with the samples we have, to see any effect they might have had on the surrounding Greek population that they settled among.
    Check out my Hidden Content
    My Y-DNA: Q-M242 -> Q-L232 -> Q-L275 -> Q-M378 -> Q-Y2016 -> Q-L245 -> Q-FGC1904 -> Q-Y2209 -> Q-Y2225 -> Q-Y2197 -> Q-Y2750 -> Q-YP1004 -> Q-YP3924;
    My mtDNA: K1a1b1a;

    My dad's mtDNA: K2a2a;

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Erikl86 For This Useful Post:

     Andrewid (11-13-2018),  Power77 (12-07-2018)

  18. #20
    Registered Users
    Posts
    190
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    I have to wonder - how big was the Cappadocian Greek population? Was it in anyway comparable to the West Anatolian Greek population numbers? If so - is it known where most of them have been settled in Greece? Or chose to settle? It might be worth comparing results from specific locations where most of them settled and with the samples we have, to see any effect they might have had on the surrounding Greek population that they settled among.
    Excellent questions Erik. I think I know the exact person in London to ask. He did his PhD on the Cappadocian Greek dialect :-) But I don't think we can even begin to compare the Cappadocian Greek numbers to West Asia Minor Greeks, or to Pontians for that matter, but shall try to get back with more deatails.
    Last edited by Andrewid; 11-13-2018 at 04:32 PM.

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Andrewid For This Useful Post:

     Erikl86 (11-13-2018),  Power77 (12-07-2018)

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 4 new calculators (modern populations)
    By Tolan in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 243
    Last Post: 08-12-2018, 10:10 AM
  2. Modeling Yamnayans as a mix of modern populations
    By michal3141 in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-30-2018, 07:55 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-05-2017, 08:38 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-08-2017, 03:22 PM
  5. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-23-2015, 05:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •