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Thread: Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism

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    Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism


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    Quantum physics broadly confirms that our (type I) universe doesn't fully conform to our evolutionarily-acquired perception of reality.

    The video's author is incorrect in stating that it debunks "materialism", insofar as it relates to the experiential argument he makes from midway onwards in the video. Looks like they're confusing the philosophical definition of "materialism" with "physical reality". The two aren't the same. Former is a longstanding monism that rejects the role of conscience or unobservable phenomena (Deepak Chopra types use inappropriate terms like "spirit" for this). Latter describes the world as we see and experience it from an anthropocentric POV. The video's creator is mixing the two up.

    In terms of the lived experience of all living humans today, quantum phenomena simply don't coincide with their/our intuitions of the world around us. Even if we know it to be the case, through both calculation and experimentation, we simply don't have the hardware to experience it (per Penrose's "Three Worlds" schematic):



    The author of this video is attempting to fit the peculiarities of quantum phenomenon and the multiverse hypothesis into a longstanding philosophical argument inappropriately. The "right fit" IMO is as Penrose accounts for - quantum phenomenon are demonstratable in the mathematical and physical worlds, but they disprove acquired and inherent notions of reality modulated through the filter of our own mental world.

    A related example is 4D. More people than not cannot conceptualise it without an example (fewer still can visualise it internally). We know 4D exists mathematically. That we cannot perceive 4D as humans doesn't mean our anthropocentric perception of physical reality is false - Only that we are, as observers, evolutionarily constrained, and are destined to be misguided about its' existence by default.

    [Edit]: Just scrolled through the comments in that video. Nice to see several up-voted ones where people point out the critical error in this video.
    Last edited by DMXX; 11-11-2018 at 04:44 AM. Reason: further comments

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    To me this seems like that 'what came first the chicken or the egg' argument. If the earth and the universe existed before living cells first appeared as science tells us, then how does no consciousness no materialism argument work? Or is the argument here that it's our consciousness that interprets reality subjectively, but there can be a lot more to reality which we don't sense? That's definitely possible, why shouldn't it be? But I don't think we'll ever know the answer to that until maybe after we die.

    Speaking of spooky reality... what is time and does free will exist? If time consists of the past, present and future then the idea of free will seems false because everything is predetermined in the future. For example, science claims that some stars are 'light years' away that means it takes years of time for us to even see it. If there's no future we wouldn't be able to see it? But is there a future or is there only the past (in our memory) and present? Or is there only present? Or does time even exist outside of our consciousness? If we could time travel into the future then there's definitely no free will, at least not in this reality as we experience it. Maybe we can't, it'll never be possible. But time seems like a pretty subjective perception to me because for example when you were a kid didn't the day seem much longer? The older you get the faster time seems to pass, years seem shorter as well as memorizing things less. As I'm presently typing this someone will read it in the future (or not lolz).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Username View Post
    To me this seems like that 'what came first the chicken or the egg' argument. If the earth and the universe existed before living cells first appeared as science tells us, then how does no consciousness no materialism argument work?
    Pretty much. The video's author is technically engaging in sophistry (though I'll assume good intentions and infer they're simply misguided rather than forwarding a false and misleading argument as something else).

    Deepak Chopra, on the other hand, is a rank sophist.

    Or is the argument here that it's our consciousness that interprets reality subjectively, but there can be a lot more to reality which we don't sense? That's definitely possible, why shouldn't it be? But I don't think we'll ever know the answer to that until maybe after we die.
    This is the empiricist's perspective, which practically all quantum physicists (and philosophy enthusiasts who aren't conflating the subjective-objective spectrum of reality - which is in agreement with Three Worlds - with subjective valuated perspectives) abide by.

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